The test was too blurry for me. I'm not a sound scientist, but a well written test should have atleast given me a solid opinion about the results.

As far as the SS vs Tube thing: I think some people simply don't hear differences that clearly. In fact, they often don't know why something sounds good/crap to them, they just like or don't like the song/sound.

Sound is a very subjective element which usually never gets trained. I believe everyone has a preferred type of sound. People just do not care since they just like a song/sound or not, which is fine.

If you are a musician sound matters. Those are the people who try to find 'that' sound. If I hear an e-guitarist play I am interested in the guitar and amp/effects. This is a relatively small group though, the majority of the people just listen to the song/sound and like or don't like it.

You have guessed it: "they just like or don't like the song/sound" is what I wanted to point out. I strongly believe that music sounds better if you know why you like something or not. Music is like a language, you need to learn it in order to get better at it. Yes I said it, you can be a better listener.

Hi jaymie66: I think there's a lot of truth in that.



Hi mhowell: I believe you have captured what RCB-CA-USA is saying exactly. As has been written elsewhere on this thread, whether it is a significant effect or not, it is certainly something you can read about in guitar magazines from time to time.

Though I've never heard it referred to as "liquidity" before. To me the word liquidity describes a property your bank balance had better possess if you intend to buy a top-end valve amp...

On which:

I have little to offer on the technical aspects of this thread. But one thing I know for sure: that is a great line!

Cheers - C

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I always play through two 12AX7's in the pre-amp, a highly microphonic tube.

And, don't forget the info from thetubstore.com people..."All tubes will exhibit some degree of microphonics. Microphonics do not mean that a tube is unusable."

so...yeah, if I were building a nuclear warhead with tube-state technology...I won't use a 12AX7, I'll use a Ecc83 so's I don't fry the tickle, and muh pickle -- thanks for the tip!

Except that a 12ax7 and a Ecc83 are the same thing. The fact remains despite whatever you use, the site you quoted is incorrect. Like so much of what has been said on this thread.
Long plate, square getter Mullards are probably the most sought after pre-amp valves around. For exactly that reason, no microphonics.

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No no and no

I'm beginning to regret giving him the tickle/pickle cliche.

Why don't you just say you like how a tube amp overdrives more than how a solid state amp clips? That's essentially what you've been arguing about the entire time.

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Good Vibes To Y'all!



Screamin' Armadillos
Texas Roadhouse Music
Guitar/Slide Guitar/Harp/Vocals

I'm not arguing about that. I'm just irked by the slew of nonsense on this thread.
And both valves and transistors clip the sound to produce overdrive. It's the same thing going on to produce the result. The pushing of the component past it's ability to function properly.

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No no and no

What is the physical mass of an electron again?



The clipping is very different, though. Although you can make a SS amp learn soft clipping. The pattern of the resulting distortion is still very different. In short: a tube distorts very much like the ear already does by itself, i.e. even-order harmonics.

Cheers

David

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"Humans think they are smarter than dolphins because we build cars and buildings and start wars etc...and all that dolphins do is swim in the water, eat fish and play around. Dolphins believe that they are smarter for exactly the same reasons."

My comment wasn't directed at you, Nik--it was directed at RCB.
I understand that he's trying to describe something that he personally experiences, but doing it in a pseudo-scientific hippy-dippy fashion. He's basically trying to create a new term, along the same lines as when Cream-era Clapton's tone was described as "Woman Tone" or early EVH's "Brown Sound." Unfortunately, we have no sonic reference in the form of a recording to relate RCB's "Liquidity", so it comes out as mumbo-jumbo.

I was basically agreeing with you, Nik.

_________________
Good Vibes To Y'all!



Screamin' Armadillos
Texas Roadhouse Music
Guitar/Slide Guitar/Harp/Vocals

+1
This guy RCB,feels that he is on a sacred mission and that the world of SS amp technology will be changed by his mention of the words and what he perceives as what he feels.
He's blowing a huge cloud of smoke.
RCB,wait around and see how fast the amp makers pick up on your buzz words and rethink the whole manufacturing of SS amps......don't hold your breath too long as smoke has a tendency to expand.
BTW...what happens when you get all your sympathetic vibes going to the point where you "go liquid" and the room fills with people?...we tube amp gigging musicians know room acoustics change.

The "even-order harmonics" properties of tube amplification is only true for single-ended (SE) designs. The vast majority of guitar amplifiers employ a push-pull configuration (PP) for the output stage. PP amplifiers (tube or SS) will cancel even harmonics.

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In my opinion Leo Fender had essentially perfected the guitar amplifier by 1964.

uuhhh,mhowell...I'm no tube amp designer,but it's my understanding the push/pull amps don't always operate totally as p/p,but sometimes depending on the volume and circumstances,can and operate as SE at times,in and out of the p/p stage......
I'll see if I can find a reference....it's not as simple as push/pull vs.single end class A.

No need to find a reference. You're mostly correct but you're confusing circuit topology with modes of operation.

It all depends on how the amp is biased. A PP amp can be biased to operate in "class A" mode which means the tubes are working at all times like in an SE amp. But it can never operate as an SE amp.

Qualification. I am stating this off the top of my head with no reference in hand or on line so it may not be 100% accurate but I think I've got the gist of it right.

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In my opinion Leo Fender had essentially perfected the guitar amplifier by 1964.

Well here's a reference anyway,this guy knows his stuff and has lots of interesting info on his site...look at #6...
http://tone-lizard.com/Biasing.htm

The AC30 operates as class A up to about 6/7 on the volume dial then shifts to Class A/B to get the extra volume, if that's what you mean RS. Most Marshall and Fender power stages do that too. It's more about getting the most efficiency out of the valves whilst retaining the best sound qualities.

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No no and no

The site is correct. The 12AX7 and ECC83 are similar, but not identickle!

And, the ECC83 is not non-microphonic -- all tubes are microphonic, but the ECC83 is less microphonic than the 12AX7.