It is currently Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:41 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
Post subject: Order of pedals on board
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:00 am
Offline
Amateur
Amateur
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:35 am
Posts: 185
Location: London, UK
I must admit ive always been more of a `straight into the amp` kinda guy than one who has loads of pedals, but in the group in playing for now i ended up needed a few pedals just to get the sounds i thought were needed.

Anyway, when i got a pedal board to put them all on i tried to do the sensible thing and research what order they should go in, i also had many lectures from my gear-head of a bass player about it. I ended up with my main distortion sound (SD-1) going first in the chain (ie. closest to my guitar), my modulation going last just after the tuner, and all my boosters and different levels of gain being in between.

Anyway, for a few months ive been getting more and more annoyed about the fact my main distortion just isn’t sounding as good as it did, less rounded and ballsy, a bit thinner and more whiney. SO, the other day I just decided to screw all the expert advice I had heard and try changing everything round just to see what sounded best (after all, the main distortion is the most important thing to me, everything else is used a lot less) and was amazed by the difference I achieved when I put my Sd-1 last in the chain!!

Now everyone has told me this is wrong, but honestly my distortion is sounding like it should again. So I now have my modulation first, and my main distortion last in the chain, nothing else ended up changing that much.

SO, I have found a few sites telling me why what im doing now is wrong, I have my bass player scratching his head... But it sounds great once again!?!?!? Im just going to stick with it and cant wait for the next gig. Least ive been able to call off my search for a new overdrive, turns out my trusty old SD-1 still does the job, i just wasnt treating it right!

Anyone have any similar experiences? Or know why this works? Or why all the advice i was given didnt seem to work? John Frusciante used a not too dissimilar setup to me live and he always had his boss distortion at the front of the chain, why is mine working brilliantly with the exact opposite?

Olly

_________________
`I prefer not to listen to music that I can't rip off or improve on` - Ian Dury


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: Order of pedals on board
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:24 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:56 pm
Posts: 4033
Location: 16 Miles North Of The Red River
This is one of the things I learned (the hard way) to think out, instead of just adding a pedal to the end or beginning of the signal chain the way I did when I was a youngster. Where you put a pedal--and how it reacts with other pedals in your chain--can make or break your impression of it.

...and conventional wisdom doesn't always apply here; I do several things "wrong" in relation to my pedal order, and my rig sounds just fine, thank you!

My pedal order (on my Big Board O' Sonic Delight):

All pedals mounted on/powered by Furman SPB8 Pedalboard

• Boss TU-2 Chromatic Tuner
• Ibanez TS-9 (re-issue) Tube Screamer (overdrive)
• Boss RT-20 Rotary Ensemble (rotary speaker simulator)
• Dunlop MWA Crybaby Wah (modified GCB95; modified it myself since Dunlop doesn't see fit to give me my own signature model)
• MXR M-101 Phase 90 (phase shifter) (late 70s block logo, no LED, "Script logo" PCB)
• Dunlop JH-2S Jimi Hendrix System Classic Fuzz (now discontinued)
• MXR M-676 Classic Overdrive (limited run Guitar Center exclusive)(modified)
• MXR M-133 Micro Amp (gain/volume boost)
• Rocktron HUSH (noise reducer)
-      LWBC Harp Break (harp overdrive)
• MXR M-169 Carbon Copy Analog Delay


My reasoning for the order:

Boss TU-2 Tuner; this doesn't need to have any interference, just signal from guitar. It also acts as a kill switch for guitar changes.

Ibanez TS9 Tube Screamer Overdrive; Here's where I depart from conventional wisdom. The BOSS website says that your wah should have a clean signal in order to get all the nuances it creates properly pushed through, but an overdriven wah sounds cool enough to justify putting this first. It's a harder, heavier sound. It's also cool to overdrive a modulation pedal like the rotary and/or wah.

All my modulation/wah pedals:
RT20 Leslie simulator
Dunlop MWA Original Crybaby Wah 
MXR Phase 90

Then Fuzz/Overdrive/Boost: That way I can fuzz up or overdrive the modulated signal (if one is present at the time). When I had a distortion pedal in my rig, it went here, too (I realized I didn't use it much, so it's on the sidelines right now). The Micro Amp/boost pedal is to perk up what might have been lost through my signal chain.
JH-2S Fuzz
MXR M-66 Classic Overdrive (modified with external personality switch)
MXR M-133 Micro Amp

Rocktron HUSH pedal (the big blue one). Because I hate hiss.

Lone Wolf Blues Company Harp Break (low gain harmonica overdrive pedal...the use and placement of this effect will have no bearing on your guitar pedalboard).

MXR Carbon Copy Analog Delay; You have to put delay after noise reduction/noise gates because the gate will see the echos/trailing signal as noise and squash it.

I use the reverb and vibrato/tremolo/whatever-you-call-it on my Vibroverb or Gibson G20 amp.

_________________
Good Vibes To Y'all!

Image

Screamin' Armadillos
Texas Roadhouse Music
Guitar/Slide Guitar/Harp/Vocals


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Order of pedals on board
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:08 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:05 pm
Posts: 2333
After having loads of pedals I don't need I've thinned things down to the bear minimum:

SD-1 >> MXR Carbon Copy in the loop of a Keeley Looper (Keeps it true bypass when disengaged. I wasn't liking the way it affected the dry signal. Godly delay when engaged, though.)

It's very reductionist, and I don't have to think as much.

I am also wanting to get a TU-3. I'll likely try it before and after the SD-1, since I am unsure of how it would react to a buffer before recieving the signal.

Pedals require a lot of tinkering, as many are picky in concert with others.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Order of pedals on board
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:52 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:53 am
Posts: 5189
Location: Magnolia, Texas (just north of Houston)
For me I have my pedals set up like this:

Guitar
Expression pedal
Tuner
Distortion
Modulators
Eq
Amp

Crybaby
TU 2
Metal Zone
Overdrive/distortion
Carbon copy
GE 7

I use the amp reverb as well. I do not use all the pedals at once, just have the ones on per song I am playing.

_________________
RK

2007 Fender Highway 1
2012 American Deluxe
2015 MIM Dave Murray HHH
2010 Fender Blacktop
1987 Fender Avalon Acoustic
2012 Marshall DSL 15 watt head


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Order of pedals on board
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:04 am
Offline
Amateur
Amateur
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:35 am
Posts: 185
Location: London, UK
interesting. RKReisher i note you have two lists there, is the second your effects loop then?

Whats the opinions about the benefits of using effects loops instead of putting pedals straight in front of the amp (so to speak!!), and whats behind the choice of what goes in your main signal chain and what goes in the effects loop?

SA you mentionned using the boss tuner as a kill switch as it were (for changing guitars), which i can totally understand, but could this not do the same job anywhere in the chain? And tornado, you mention the `buffer` that is part of these boss tuners, im wonderring if its this that has suddenly given my SD-1 its balls back? Ie. the fact that the end of my chain is now tuner --- sd-1, so perhaps this buffer effect is allowing the SD-1 to be itself more, as opposed to being coloured so much by the other units?

Sorry for all the questions, but i havent seen too much written about this that hasnt just been a `right way`, and a `wrong way` approach. Me breaking the rules somewhat and getting the sound i like has got me thinking.

Cheers guys (and gals).

P.S. London is sweltering today, anyone else in a mini heatwave? Cant believe its march!?!?

_________________
`I prefer not to listen to music that I can't rip off or improve on` - Ian Dury


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Order of pedals on board
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:40 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:57 am
Posts: 13164
Location: Peckham: where the snow leopards roam
ollyclam wrote:
Now everyone has told me this is wrong... But it sounds great once again!?!?!?

Hi Olly: this is absolutely the only thing that matters. If it sounds the way your ears want then you have the order right. End of.

Er, except:

ollyclam wrote:
Whats the opinions about the benefits of using effects loops instead of putting pedals straight in front of the amp (so to speak!!), and whats behind the choice of what goes in your main signal chain and what goes in the effects loop?

Well, some people like running their modulation FX through the loop, so they skip the pre-amp stage of the amp and also so your main drive type pedals can talk to the front end un-mediated, if you see what I mean. Worth a try just to see how it sounds to you, but there's no rules here.


ollyclam wrote:
SA you mentionned using the boss tuner as a kill switch as it were (for changing guitars), which i can totally understand, but could this not do the same job anywhere in the chain?

Just to preempt the Armadillo on that, of course wherever you put the tuner it cuts out the guitar signal to the amp when engaged and so gives you your mute. But to me SA's logic of putting it first is good: the tuner wants the cleanest possible signal from the guitar to do its job, unsullied by other pedals in the way. That's why most people put it first in the chain.

Though I did hear of a guy running the tuner on its own through the amp's FX loop. Not really sure of the worth of that, but...


ollyclam wrote:
P.S. London is sweltering today, anyone else in a mini heatwave? Cant believe its march!?!?

Nice, ain't it? :D

24C/74F yesterday, and warmer again today, looks like. Very good! (Though remember the last two years: fabulous spring/early summer... very wet July and August. Uh-uh...)

And now for the hijack. What sort of music and what gigs do you play in London, Olly? Fill us in... (Apologies if I've missed that info elsewhere.)

Cheers - C

_________________
Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Order of pedals on board
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:26 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:53 am
Posts: 5189
Location: Magnolia, Texas (just north of Houston)
One list is a generic list, the other is my board. My current amp is my first one that has an option for a loop. I am still playing around with my sound. I have found that I like my modulating pedals being in line after the amp, signal. I still prefer expression pedals, distortion, and EQ going into the amp first.

_________________
RK

2007 Fender Highway 1
2012 American Deluxe
2015 MIM Dave Murray HHH
2010 Fender Blacktop
1987 Fender Avalon Acoustic
2012 Marshall DSL 15 watt head


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Order of pedals on board
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:10 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:56 pm
Posts: 4033
Location: 16 Miles North Of The Red River
Ceri wrote:
ollyclam wrote:
SA you mentionned using the boss tuner as a kill switch as it were (for changing guitars), which i can totally understand, but could this not do the same job anywhere in the chain?

Just to preempt the Armadillo on that, of course wherever you put the tuner it cuts out the guitar signal to the amp when engaged and so gives you your mute. But to me SA's logic of putting it first is good: the tuner wants the cleanest possible signal from the guitar to do its job, unsullied by other pedals in the way. 
Cheers - C

Yeah, what he said... :P
A modulation effect accidentally left on can wreak havoc with tuning.

But the tuner could be put anywhere...shoot, any pedal could be put anywhere in your chain...if it sounds good, do it!

_________________
Good Vibes To Y'all!

Image

Screamin' Armadillos
Texas Roadhouse Music
Guitar/Slide Guitar/Harp/Vocals


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Order of pedals on board
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:54 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:47 am
Posts: 2967
Location: Westchester County, NY
Right now I have (with lots of trial an error):

Guitar
Wah
TS9
TS9
Fender Blender
DOD Phasor 401
Gibson Spring Reverb
Amp


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Order of pedals on board
Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:08 am
Offline
Amateur
Amateur
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:35 am
Posts: 185
Location: London, UK
Thanks for all the info everyone, starting to think it might be rather sad that im so interested in this! But when it affects the sound coming out so drastically it pretty much becomes a huge thing in my life!

Ceri wrote:
And now for the hijack. What sort of music and what gigs do you play in London, Olly? Fill us in... (Apologies if I've missed that info elsewhere.)

Cheers - C


No worries Ceri, thanks for the interest.

The band im playing in is called `the hops` and i guess its kinda indie rock now, hard to describe your own music isnt it? The original spec we came up with was glenn miller conducting the arctic monkeys :P , so a fuzzed up modern take on classic swing sounds. But we`ve been writing together for 2 years now and its progressed naturally so im unsure how close we still are to that! Either way, i used to play in a very heavy rock 3 piece called `clams` so have brought the riffage and the heavier side, whilst my writing partner Dom is a huge beach boys fan and is way more about chords and melodies. The one thing we all tried to get in there was to use as much swing as possible.

Ive just been setting up a sound cloud page so will post a link to the two songs ive just uploaded, both are off our upcoming album.

http://soundcloud.com/thehops-1/shudder
http://soundcloud.com/thehops-1/on-the-beach

As for gigs, our drummer left before Christmas so we’ve been out of action for a while getting tight with the new animal, but before that we were playing 93 feet east, 100 club, Water Rats, Shunt, Dublin Castle, Hope and Anchor etc. All the usual London haunts. Our album is ready now, so we’re just about to start gigging again, and im currently sending out promo copies of the cd to as many indie labels as possible. *deep breaths*

Phew, dangerous to ask a musician about his trade, you’ll be there all day!!

_________________
`I prefer not to listen to music that I can't rip off or improve on` - Ian Dury


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Order of pedals on board
Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:02 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:57 am
Posts: 13164
Location: Peckham: where the snow leopards roam
Hi Olly: ah, the Hope & Anchor, eh? Happy days! :D

And the Hundred Club? Good fun been had there too.

I'm browsing on my phone at this minute so I shall wait to listen to your links till I'm back at a computer. I'll be sure to check them out: anyone who uses the words of Ian Dury as a sig line must be doing something right....

Later - C

_________________
Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Order of pedals on board
Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:33 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 1:08 pm
Posts: 1307
Ello, Olly. Great music. I'm not picking up on the
Glenn Miller that I know.ha Well done. :D


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Order of pedals on board
Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:52 am
Offline
Amateur
Amateur
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:35 am
Posts: 185
Location: London, UK
haha! Cheers GTG, yeah hearing all that old swing stuff from my parents as a kid kind of got it in my head a bit. Sure Glenns influence is buried in there somewhere, must admit he hasnt poked his head up in a while though... :mrgreen:

Didnt he go down in an american plane during the war and nothing more was ever found of him or heard of him? Remember seeing a documentary about it once.

_________________
`I prefer not to listen to music that I can't rip off or improve on` - Ian Dury


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Order of pedals on board
Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:27 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 1:08 pm
Posts: 1307
ollyclam wrote:
haha! Cheers GTG, yeah hearing all that old swing stuff from my parents as a kid kind of got it in my head a bit. Sure Glenns influence is buried in there somewhere, must admit he hasnt poked his head up in a while though... :mrgreen:

Didnt he go down in an american plane during the war and nothing more was ever found of him or heard of him? Remember seeing a documentary about it once.


Yes. His plane went down over the English Channel. Some say the Allies mistakenly shot it down. Dumping bombs on the way home.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Order of pedals on board
Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:46 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:57 am
Posts: 13164
Location: Peckham: where the snow leopards roam
ollyclam wrote:

Hi Olly. Back again, and now I've had a good listen to your tracks.


GTG wrote:
Ello, Olly. Great music. I'm not picking up on the
Glenn Miller that I know.ha Well done. :D

Yeah, there may be some dotted eighth notes in there but perhaps we have to work a bit to make a connection to swing music.

Which is neither here nor there: they're good, bouncy, fun tracks! Nice work. How does a guy get to see your band in action - before you're inevitable spot on Jools Holland, that is?

Cheers - C

_________________
Image


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: