This begs the question, which artist(s) do you think didn't rip anyone off?

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We're all Magpies and Thieves to some degree. It's not acknowledging the originator in any way shape or form that's disturbing. We should all at least cite our influences even though it always comes out in the way we play and becomes obvious. Stealing and making a boatload of money by claiming someone elses work as your own is just wrong. Share the wealth.

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+1

I quote Forum user goranm: "There are only 12 notes in this world". Overlap is completely inevitable. The chords don't belong to any one person so there's nothing wrong with taking ideas and seeing what comes out when you use them.

I entirely agree that citation is necessary, though a very rare few actually do it.

Right, if you acknowledge the originator of everything you 'borrow' it isn't ripping anyone off. Can you think of anyone who fits this description?

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Frank Zappa. He cited Edgard Victor Achille Charles Varèse and Johnny Guitar Watson and many others.
Johnny Winter too.

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Hi strings10927: nobody's obliged to cite every influence they ever had everytime they record a number. But if that number was actually written by someone else, why then they do have to credit it - and pay royalties accordingly. That's not just manners, it's the law. That's where Led Zeppelin fell down and were rightly spanked.

Still, it doesn't mean we can't like their versions of those numbers.

Cheers - C

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Yep C that's absolutely right and Willy Dixon wasn't the only musician they did that to. They found out big time they weren't dealing with some ignorant old Blues hic.

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I though we were talking about Jimmy Page the guitar player, not Led Zeppelin the band?

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Jimmy Page took partial credit for writting alot of the songs.

All artists steal here and there and don't give credit. Even Frank Zappa. Or, dare I say it .....

"Lady Madonna" by The Beatles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfthrizXKOM

"Bad Penny Blues" by Humphrey Lyttleton
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY1O8YYjY2A

Inspiration

McCartney recalled in 1994, "'Lady Madonna' was me sitting down at the piano trying to write a bluesy boogie-woogie thing ... It reminded me of Fats Domino for some reason, so I started singing a Fats Domino impression. It took my voice to a very odd place." Domino himself covered the song later in 1968 and it became a US Hot 100 hit (peaking at exactly #100). The song, and in particular the introduction, are similar to Humphrey Lyttelton's "Bad Penny Blues" from 1956.

John Lennon helped write the lyrics, which give an account of an overworked, exhausted (possibly single) mother, facing a new problem each day of the week. The lyrics miss Saturday and in a 1992 interview, McCartney, who only realised the omission many years later, half-jokingly suggested that, given the difficulties of the other six days, the woman in the song likely went out and had a good time that night.

"I Feel Fine" by The Beatles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlpMs_R3P6U

"Watch Your Step" by Bobby Parker
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvtabNAb_wE

Origin

Lennon wrote the guitar riff while in the studio recording "Eight Days a Week". "I wrote 'I Feel Fine' around that riff going on in the background", he recalled. "I told them I'd write a song specially for the riff. So they said, 'Yes. You go away and do that', knowing that we'd almost finished the album Beatles for Sale. Anyway, going into the studio one morning, I said to Ringo, 'I've written this song but it's lousy'. But we tried it, complete with riff, and it sounded like an A side, so we decided to release it just like that."

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Zep did'nt use a riff from a song the took the song. Its alittle different.

ok, I'm going to take the tires off your car and leave the rest of the car, that way it's not really stealing

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That's an interesting example. Humphrey Lyttleton was nobody's fool but to the best of my knowledge he neither asked for nor received a royalty. The reason for that would be that though that left-hand stride piano line is strikingly similar the melody is not. That's just the sort of distinction copyright lawyers and courts spend fortunes fighting over. People win and lose huge amounts on those decisions.

In general terms the law seems to feel that in popular music the melody and chord structure are the basis for a song and so that is where the most emphasis is placed in plagiarism cases. People mostly don't win cases about copied riffs. That's how Paul Weller was able to blatently lift the bass line from The Beatles' Taxman for The Jam's track Start and yet not pay royalties for it and not get sued. The Beatles have notoriously energetic lawyers; if there was a case to be brought here they'd have done so:

Taxman: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzLry3ABpV0
Start: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdSqpT6gfDU

We tiptoe through legal minefields...

Cheers - C

PS: by the way, to my ears Paul Weller's guitar solo in Start is heavily influenced by George Harrison too. But influence is not plagiarism.

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Subjective opinion alert

The Zeppelin rhythm section seldom gets the credit they deserve. In my, not so humble, opinion it was Bonham and Jones that made Led Zeppelin what it was. I know that's counter to 99% of the opinions out there but that's honestly the way I see it.

I also think Led Zeppelin started going downhill after their first four albums. The first four albums were superb. Houses of the Holy and Physical Graffiti were good. The rest were OK at best.

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I can't agree that Page isn't up to par with EC, or SRV. It's like saying that Pete Townsend, Leslie West, Joe Walsh, or David Gilmour aren't good either. Over the years, I've been around well known lead players. I've also been around a few unknown lead players that may been as good, or better than the well known. I'll take page's leads anytime. They all have their own place in music.

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