Today I got my Phat Cat p90s in and installed them into my Squier Esprit.



I think these things might be a little too PHAT for me. They sound ok clean. I wouldn't say that they are any more or less colorful than most of the humbuckers I work with. They are quiet, and don't appear to be microphonic. But holy crap these things can be very hard to control when you use distortion.

The guitar is a chambered body, and with distortion, I'm getting a LOT of string pull. Like when an acoustic starts to feed back. I can let go of the strings and the "A" string will start to vibrate and go off. I can even feel it resonating through the guitar body. It's literally impossible to use it with distortion and a wah. It just starts to squeel like mad in the toe position.

If anyone on here has any experience with P90s please share your experiences with them.

Normal for these?
Wrong guitar to have them in?
Wrong pickups for my style maybe?

_________________

I have no idea but I was thinking of P90s in one of my semi hollow bodies too.
Maybe not such a good idea then for me in an Ibanez AG8 and man do the original pickups suck.
Maybe suck is too mild a word they are truly awful. too squeely, trebly and feedback when I use high gain on the amp.
The only decent sound I can get out of it, is when the tones are switched right down to 0.
Good job I only use it to play at night on the veranda when having a smoke.

I would say you might actually like them as long as you don't use a heavy distortion like I do.

My personal opinion is that these are meant to be either clean channel, or no more than mild distortion or overdriven power tube distortion. I can't use these live for what I do. I don't see any benefit over humbuckers for my style. They definitely don't agree with my rig ( P90+wah+distortion= no bueno).

I will say this though... I'm keeping them.

After some experimentation as to what their strengths ARE, I came to a conclusion that I would only use them in the studio in the clean channel. The bridge pickup kicks the s**t out of any other I have for Reggae rhythms. It's a Telecaster bridge pickup Xs 10. Imagine a Telecaster on steroids. That's what they are. Neck pickup too.

That being said, they will be priceless in the studio and I'm very glad I bought them. But they are useless to me live.

_________________

You might actually really like a good set of Gibsons for that guitar. You can find a set of 498t and 490r for a decent price if you look around. They do very well in both clean and dist.

_________________

I have Phat Cats in my Ibanez AS73. They're P-90's and single coil pups. P-90's are notoriously hot. I have P90's in my Gibson LP Studio 60's Tribute. They are really hot and take a bit of getting used to but for me, they sound incredible. I usually don't use distortion pedals with them, only my Strat and Dano U1. Jah, if you're getting string pull, you might try lowering the pup height a bit. My Tribute sustains forever. Pickups are funny things. Playing style, pup height and tons of other things can effect the way they sound.

_________________
Life...... It's sexually transmitted and always fatal

There are certain pickup designs which should be left alone. The P-90 is one of them. Consider the fact that it is in fact, a big, single coiled pickup where making it even bigger and by necessity, weightier such as what is typical with a Phat Cat, P-94, etc. and then throwing a metal can over it will only make for it's own weight to cause just enough coil warpage and in turn, uncontrollable microphonics at higher volumes. The only way around this situation is if you repot them to where there is absolutely no doubt that the entire innards of the pickup is totally and firmly wax saturated. Upon accomplishing this, all you'll have to deal with then is the loud hum.

_________________
You dig?

They do have a good sound Supro. As I was messing with the pickup heights, I was a little disappointed in the mismatch the Phat Cats had between the 2 pickups. The neck overpowers the bridge by a lot (which is one of my peeves). So to keep them balanced, I ended up needing to lower the neck pickup below the ring (another one of my peeves) if I wanted a bigger distance from the strings with the bridge.
The vibration was only happening with higher gain distortion. And I'm suspecting that the chamber in the guitar body is a big factor as well. I will be re-installing them into another solid body for studio work. In the clean channel, however, they don't do it and are fairly quiet when you stop playing.



Actually, I thought you would rather enjoy the results of my experimentation. When you play a P90 with a wah and distortion, it sounds very much like a radio being dialed in to contact life on Mars. I'm pretty sure I've found a way for you to phone home my friend.

All kidding aside, there may be a little truth to that. Mainly in the sense that I wouldn't say they are versatile. And when they go out of control, it's over the top. I cover a pretty broad spectrum from Reggae, Rock, R&b, Blues, Heavy Metal, etc, when I play live. I can do all of that with a good HH set. But this just isn't gonna happen.

My other guitar player only plays through clean channel with a delay. He could benefit much more from a set like this than I can. In fact, he hasn't heard them yet. When he does, I'm pretty sure he's going to love it. The bridge pickup is insane for Reggae rhythms.

I would still rather he play his Blacktop or a Telecaster live though. I can see where the P90s can be finicky and hard to control at times. I'd be afraid of certain situations where we are standing close to our amps for some gigs. When they squeal, it's not a whole lot of fun on the ears.

Thanks everyone for your input. I'm still going to mess with these a little. See how they sound in a different guitar. But I can't see them being any more than a tool in the studio for me.

_________________

Jah, I never use any gain with my semi hollow body for obvious reasons. The P-90's in my Gibson are quite different than the Phat Cats. They're Soapbars. There is a little difference between the neck and bridge pickup. The Neck pup over powers it slightly. My Gibson is also chambered. It's a great sounding guitar for not a whole lot of cash. I think the difference is I rely almost entirely on tube distortion. I'm a Blues/Rock player.

_________________
Life...... It's sexually transmitted and always fatal

Right. I'm sure that there are many pro players who prefer True P90s for their craft. I can see a benefit to them. My other guitar player will love the Phat Cats. But they just aren't tailored to my own personal needs.

Our songs sometimes have a steady wah throughout the whole song, and when I go into a solo, I keep using it so I'm not tap-dancing too much.

The alternative for me to balance with a Neck pickup using a wah would be, I have to switch off the wah, switch on the distortion, switch on the delay, switch to the bridge pickup. After the solo, it's switching everything back off, and going back to the original neck with wah sound (clean).

If I'm singing the song, that can be a lot to do.

With the Phat Cats, they don't agree with a wah very well, or distortion (what I'm using anyway), and the bridge is weaker than the neck, so I'd be switching on a boost in addition to all of that.

Every player is different and has different rigs and styles. These just don't feasibly mesh with what I need to accomplish other than a great clean reggae rhythm sound and clean solos in the studio. I have other guitars that are this way. I don't touch single coils at all for my live shows even though I have some outstanding sounding single coil guitars.

I wanted to try these Phat Cats to see if they were as suggested, "like a humbucker with single coil flavor". I'm not so sure I would describe these that way. I would say they sound more like a Telecaster that has been extremely juiced.

_________________

I agree. The difference between the Phat Cats and Gibson's P-90's are worlds apart. The Gibson P-90's are closer to Gibson's PAF pickups in terms of pure power and tone.

_________________
Life...... It's sexually transmitted and always fatal

Hey, thanks for the insight 63Supro. I do appreciate it. Next time I'm at the guitar store I'll have to check out one of the Gibsons. I still have a fascination with P90s and would love to compare the differences.

_________________

The Mighty Mite P-90's are a good, affordable version. Side-by-side comparisons with several different Epiphone P-90's were favorable toward the MM one...

I have also mentioned Pete Biltoft Vintage Vibe pups a dozen times...every one of his pups have been amongst the tops in the business, especially if you're going for a vintage sound (which I'm not sure if you are)...you might check him out, too.

_________________
Good Vibes To Y'all!



Screamin' Armadillos
Texas Roadhouse Music
Guitar/Slide Guitar/Harp/Vocals

Supro, They are the pickup p90s I have heard and played on a Gibson.
They truly are tone machines, the sound out of them is so distinctive that I fell in love with them. They just seem to growl... Best way I can describe them!! lol
Jah, your experience with the Phats has definetly put me off them.
It's been a hard choice between getting a guitar with them in or converting the Ibanez to them. TBH, I was confused with the choice, scared to make the first step in case its a waste of money and now the above posts have made my choice. Gibson p90s are the ones.
Thanks guys.
Keith

Very cool. That's what this forum should be about. That's why I come here. I trust the knowledge of the more experienced people here.

I will find a way to make these work to my advantage. My biggest problem is that I can't utilize the neck pickup in a way I would like to live. It doesn't mean it doesn't sound good in the clean channel. But it is mismatched to the Bridge pickup by a lot, and using it with a Wah/Dist is pure insanity.

So I've narrowed things down to a few things I can do.

#1- Keep things as they are, use the pickups in the studio for clean stuff, and the guitar stays in the closet til the next studio session.

#2- Split the pickups apart, use the neck P90 pickup as a bridge, and pair them with Humbuckers in the neck position of two guitars.

#3- Sell them

Something tells me I'm gonna try option #2 just for the experiment of it before I ever reach #3. I do like the bridge pickup. I never use a wah with the bridge, and if it ever did start to squeal on me with Distortion live, I could switch to the middle position and sacrifice a little high end to tame it.

For the record, I don't think Phat Cats sound bad individually. They might be just fine for someone else for what they do. But as a set, I think they are too mismatched in output. Individually, it's possible that they could end up being 2 of my favorite bridge pickups. I'm even contemplating using one for a hot SSS setup.

_________________