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Post subject: Re: negative posts
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:09 am
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Minnesotastrats wrote:
RCB-CA-USA wrote:
tomhintz wrote:
Some moderators just kill threads like that and while that does work I don't know that it is the only solution.


As I've stated in other posts, I'm here to learn and share. Part of my Fender and musical experience is to discuss life altogether, everything music -- life, the basis of all songs. History and current events effect my Fender experience, my music, my lyrics, and my poetry, so I believe I'm firmly within in the policies (loosely written rules) of the site when discussing history and current events, even politics as politics effects everything, including Fender and music.

Can I discuss and discern this information elsewhere in relation to *my* musical and Fender experience? No, because my peers are here on the Fender forum and others have complimented me for my contributions, contributions others complain about.

Do my posts interfere with the site? I believe not. We all have the choice to either read or not read a thread. Some stuff offends me, but you don't hear me complaining to Fender if something offends me as I respect everybody's right to free speech.

Whenever the good ol' boys rant about political topics they don't agree with, that's them interfering with information they simply disagree with or are in denial over, their motives are clearly political in nature. Cow-towing to them and censoring relevant information I present is political in and of itself and therefore contradicts the "rules" because their political whims interfere with my relevant contributions to the overall forum.

Some good-hearted people engage in topics they don't expect to go the direction they lead to and then complain. If they don't want controversy, they should think about what they are posting before they create a thread or post in a thread.

In yet another locked thread, even Brad mentions there were zero complaints, plus people complimented me for my contributions. The thread was and is obviously interesting relevant to our Fender and musical experience but the thread got locked anyways. This is sad, so sad.

Again, this is all about free speech and everything music and everything Fender.

Let freedom ring.

I think the solution is; if you don't like a topic that relates to your musical experience, find another thread that does. Locking threads because somebody disagrees with issues raised, that's fascist censorship and clear violation of our free speech and the forum policies!

As I have stated you have a right to free speech, but there is no right to be heard or listened to. Learn it, love it, live it.


I also have the right to expect those threads not be locked in the spirit of free speech, correct?

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Post subject: Re: negative posts
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:32 am
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RCB-CA-USA wrote:
I also have the right to expect those threads not be locked in the spirit of free speech, correct?

I'd like to agree with you Russ and ordinarily I would but in this case I have to point out that the basis of your stated connection between the Fender Forum and politics is highly, highly, highly debatable. In fact I would personally argue that your connection between Fender and politics has no merit at all.

That is to say, I would argue that point if I had the desire to debate with you on it.
I do not.
It's simply my opinion and observation.

I remain convinced that religious and political discussions have no rightful place here. In fact I would prefer it if Brad were to change the wording in the rules from "strongly discouraged" to "prohibited".

MHO

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Post subject: Re: negative posts
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:42 am
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RCB-CA-USA, Having just reread the constitution and the bill of rights- No sir you do not.


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Post subject: Re: negative posts
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:55 pm
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Minnesotastrats wrote:
RCB-CA-USA, Having just reread the constitution and the bill of rights- No sir you do not.

How so?

Free speech is free speech based on the current wording of the policies.

And BMW-KTM, if Fender decides to opt-out of free speech, I am certain many of us will opt-out of Fender altogether -- the smokin' gun, i.e., how our speech is directly related to all things Fender and music and we are in compliance with the policies. Again, to some of us, all things relate to music and those who disagree with our ideas should find other threads to participate in!

If we censor any discussion related to Fender and music, essentially, we have censored music altogether in my book as all things are related to music, all things! Some like dah blues, some like politically motivated music. Different strokes for different folks!

Btw, I've grown verrry fond of everybody's voice on this forum...I'd be thoroughly sad to not speak my mind and hear the mind of others...not to mention, if I can't discuss this information with my peers, my head will pop from the frustration of silent concern to share the information with my peers. I need to discuss this somewhere and this is the perfect and only place for me!

And the notion we can't discuss religion and politics is steeped in communism, a play on words that's been implanted in the minds of the world to get us to ignore the corruption and destruction of communisim. Let's end that destructive cycle here and now, cement free speech firmly in place!

Come on Fender, let freedom ring! Give us all a place to discuss or Fender experience and our music experience -- all things are music and open for discussion outside of illegal activities, of course!

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Post subject: Re: negative posts
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:02 pm
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I wonder how people survived before Al Gore invented the internet. ???


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Post subject: Re: negative posts
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:49 pm
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See what's happening here already? Let's talk about our guitars and music! Current events and politics aren't necessary, and mostly born out of " incorrect information that's spread through the internet" anyway. In my previous post I said some people use forums as a means to vent. We shouldn't give political thoughts and reactions to current events a moments time on this forum even if originated by a recognized PHD in Political Science. Talk to your dog about it.

I almost forgot...I signed in to ask if anyone can tell me if a Jaguar bridge cover will fit a Japanese Jag Stang?


Last edited by tvr1979 on Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: negative posts
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:54 pm
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tvr1979 wrote:
See what's happening here already? Let's talk about our guitars and music! Current events and politics aren't necessary, and mostly born out of " incorrect information that's spread through the internet" anyway. In my previous post I said some people use forums as a means to vent. We shouldn't give political thoughts and reactions to current events a moments time on this forum even if originated by a recognized PHD in Political Science. Talk to your dog about it.

"Not everything you read on the internet is true"- Abraham Lincoln


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Post subject: Re: negative posts
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:29 pm
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BMW-KTM wrote:
tomhintz wrote:
Some moderators just kill threads like that and while that does work I don't know that it is the only solution.

Maybe not the only one but the best one without a doubt. This isn't the only guitar forum out there. This one does have the benefit of being the official Fender forum. If you look at the other ones out there that have withstood the test of time they are almost unilaterally the ones that demonstrate zero tolerance for religious or political argument. Most of them do have the other big problem that frequently plagues guitar forums; ie. the good old boys club mentality. I see the early signs of that particular decay beginning to happen here and I'm not really sure what can be done about it. That's a different issue, though. On the subject of heated arguments the best defense is nipping it in the bud every single time. Once people begin to realise they can't have the fights they love so much here on this forum they will leave and find another forum where they can satisfy their need to fight and stir up dissention. That's the ideal situation because why in the world would we want those people here in the first place? Even if they do have someting to contribute I for one don't want them here.

My 2¢.


This forum is better than many out there, in terms of people discussing things in a civilized manner. I understand your points, although 'politics' touches everything in life, including music (I don't just mean Bob Dylan, The Clash, MC5, Black Flag, Springsteen, Rage Against the Machine, etc.). Or whether you have any money to buy a Fender, say. It's all intermingled. But I would definitely like to keep the conversations 'non-attacking' vs. 'I have a squirrel army in my garage' as they are elsewhere.

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Post subject: Re: negative posts
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:56 pm
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RCB-CA-USA wrote:
I also have the right to expect those threads not be locked in the spirit of free speech, correct?

Wrong. Free speech only means you can't be arrested for speaking out. If you defame someone's character, crying "Free speech!" won't help you at all in civil court. Furthermore, this website is Fender's property. That means they get to decide what is acceptable and unacceptable behavior by guests on their property, just as you do on your property. Just because it is on the internet doesn't mean they have any less right to ownership.

BMW-KTM wrote:
I remain convinced that religious and political discussions have no rightful place here. In fact I would prefer it if Brad were to change the wording in the rules from "strongly discouraged" to "prohibited".
I agree wholeheartedly. There is nothing more contentious than political rancor. There is a lot of camaraderie on this forum, I would hate to see that change.

I think we can find better things to discuss and debate on this forum - music, guitars, amps, etc., i.e. the things the forum exists for.

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Post subject: Re: negative posts
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:44 pm
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spacewolf wrote:
RCB-CA-USA wrote:
I also have the right to expect those threads not be locked in the spirit of free speech, correct?

Wrong. Free speech only means you can't be arrested for speaking out. If you defame someone's character, crying "Free speech!" won't help you at all in civil court. Furthermore, this website is Fender's property. That means they get to decide what is acceptable and unacceptable behavior by guests on their property, just as you do on your property. Just because it is on the internet doesn't mean they have any less right to ownership.

BMW-KTM wrote:
I remain convinced that religious and political discussions have no rightful place here. In fact I would prefer it if Brad were to change the wording in the rules from "strongly discouraged" to "prohibited".
I agree wholeheartedly. There is nothing more contentious than political rancor. There is a lot of camaraderie on this forum, I would hate to see that change.

I think we can find better things to discuss and debate on this forum - music, guitars, amps, etc., i.e. the things the forum exists for.


The First Amendment to the United States Constitution stipulates that "Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech."

Nobody's forcing you to read controversial threads.

And, the word comradery was born out of communism/socialism. Regardless, commrads should be able to tolerate free speech within the US without falling to pieces, yes? Your bond with each other isn't so weak you can't handle opposing views, is it?

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Post subject: Re: negative posts
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:47 pm
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Nothing to do with free speech. Everything to do with with why we read this forum.


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Post subject: Re: negative posts
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:00 pm
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Amazon Page For Toy Drone Becomes Protest Sounding Board

http://www.infowars.com/amazon-page-for-toy-drone-becomes-protest-sounding-board/

An Amazon page featuring a toy model of a Predator Drone aimed at children has been targeted by Americans who simply do not agree that airborne assassination is the best foreign policy approach.

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Post subject: Re: negative posts
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:08 pm
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Post subject: Re: negative posts
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:13 pm
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On a more musical note (no pun intended), "Lunatic Fringe" by Red Rider is one of my favorite songs. :wink:


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Post subject: Re: negative posts
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:40 pm
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Generals gathered in their masses
Just like witches at black masses
Evil minds that plot destruction
Sorcerers of death's construction
In the fields the bodies burning
As the war machine keeps turning
Death and hatred to mankind
Poisoning their brainwashed minds
Oh lord yeah!

Politicians hide themselves away
They only started the war
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that role to the poor

Time will tell on their power minds
Making war just for fun
Treating people just like pawns in chess
Wait 'til their judgment day comes
Yeah!

Now in darkness world stops turning
Ashes where the bodies burning
No more war pigs have the power
Hand of God has struck the hour
Day of judgment, God is calling
On their knees the war pig's crawling
Begging mercy for their sins
Satan laughing spreads his wings
Oh lord yeah!

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