It is currently Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:17 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 88 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Author Message
Post subject: Re: I'm Through With Fender
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:43 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:13 pm
Posts: 1633
Here's the thing, piracy isn't as big a deal as its being made out to be.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/20 ... e-numbers/

New releases are as plentiful as ever, and the entertainment industry is doing better than most considering the recession.

Also, tastes are much more fractured than they once were. There are no massive bands anymore because you aren't forcefed a diet of the same "artists" on radio anymore. It's easier to find something that you connect more to and 99% of the time those indie artists dont report to nielsen, so those sales are totally unaccounted for.

Also, for anyone lamenting the death of physical media:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/01/22/v ... ack-again/

Vinyl sales are surging again. Again, mostly by independent labels who dont report to nielsen.

And let's not even get into how badly the industry execs LIED in their reportings:

Image

_________________
Image


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: I'm Through With Fender
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:52 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:39 pm
Posts: 3399
Location: teh webz?
Highline wrote:
Floyd_The_Barber wrote:
Nope. Most of the time I'm not taking any profit from a band because, again, there is in fact no other way to get the music, and as a result no way they could get my money for it. Hell, the site I use, many artists upload their own music. And it's not like I just screw them over, I go to shows regularly and buy s***tons of merch.

You also still seem to ignore the fact that many of this generation's artists are fully supportive of piracy. In the long run, they make more money because of it because more people hear the music. If it's free, people will figure "hey, why not?". If it's $10, somebody is more like ly to say "why the hell would I spend my money on some nobody band I've never even heard of?". If people buy it, they get less fans, less merch sales, and lower show attendance, but a few cents or a couple bucks from the 50 albums they sold. If people download it, they get more fans, higher attendance, and a hell of a lot more merch sold, and piles of money from said merch sales. Whether you like it or not, piracy has been absolutely nothing but good for independent music.


Floyd, if the bands wanted to give their stuff away. They would have done it. Plenty of bands have put out free songs on the internet. But by virtue of them putting them for sale as CDs, that means they'd like to make some money off them.

If an artist wants to sell CDs and get some repayment for all the hard work they put into writing and recording their songs, they should be able to do that without a bunch of pirate sites posting their music and giving it away to whomever wants to it.

If, however, the artist wants to give it away to influence people, sell more T-shirts, reach a larger audience, etc. They can do that pretty easily as things stand.

What's impossible right now is to put something out for sale without a bunch of sites putting it up for free. Obviously SOPA is not the answer and I'm not sure what is.

But in the end, it should be up to the artist. Wouldn't you want to make your own decisions with your own music?

For the third or fourth time, on the site I use many artists upload their own releases. Most artists of this generation give their full support to piracy. In my experience (ie speaking to band members after shows) they rarely give a damn how you got the music, they're just happy you heard it and even liked it enough to come out to a show and buy a shirt. These are young people who are trying to make a living form their music, mind you.

_________________
Favorite bands:

Melvins
The Jesus Lizard
Cows
Big Business
R***man
Minutemen
Flight
Minor Threat
Big Black
Shellac
Karp
Scratch Acid
Wipers
Pixies


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: I'm Through With Fender
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:03 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:39 pm
Posts: 3399
Location: teh webz?
ollyclam wrote:
i`ll admit to being quite angered by the opinion put forward by floyd (he`s merely the voice here, its a widespread opinion) that the current state of affairs is a good thing. But what i will say is that.. It is the way of things now. I honestly dont think theres any way of getting the cat back in the bag. And any attempt to go back to the old days (SOPA or otherwise) is admirable, but doomed. Unless we shut down all freedom and become communist china.... Which would kind of.. suck.

Unfortunately, i think we`d better grow to like floyds opinion as much as we can, or at least grow to live with it. Any profit from music now has to be from merch or live shows. Plenty of people back in the day used to moan about the fact that the music business was... .well a business!! They may have got their wish, its not going to be much of a business for long at this rate.

On the plus side, theres so much cr*p out there nowadays, everybody wants to be a rockstar. Maybe over the next generation when people realise theres rarely such a thing nowadays the playing field will become somewhat less cluttered again. We might even end up with less musicians, but most of the musicians out there having something they want to say again? Intead of just wanting to be doing it for the sake of it, because its cool. Musicians even be able to get work locally again instead of all the dreams of needing to be a touring star just to make a living.... Scenes might start popping up again instead of bands just copying the current trend... the whole thing starts moving full circle.. OK getting a bit carried away with myself now.

Just because you don't like something, that doesn't mean it's bad. The industry changes. People on this very forum know this from experience, when Rock moved in, or when metal became prevalent, etc.. It has to change to stay alive. The answer IS NOT to try (and fail) to keep things the way they are, but rather adapt. Instead of trying to stop piracy, and in effect destroying the flourishing independent music industry, the labels need to adapt to the age of the internet.

Also, I'd love to know what gives you the impression that scenes don't exist? Take a look at San Francisco, or Australia, or the US south. There's more music out there now than ever before, and it's infinitely more accessible because of the internet. If not for the internet and piracy, many of today's bigger indie acts would likely be nobodies, solely because no one would have heard of them and nobody is willing to drop their hard-earned money on some band they've never heard of. In the past, you would have had to really dig to find anything other than what's on the radio, and quality was even harder to come by solely because of how hard it was to find more music. Now, you can find literally HUNDREDS of great artists in a week. The industry is changing, and it's nothing but good for everyone except those not willing to accept the change.

_________________
Favorite bands:

Melvins
The Jesus Lizard
Cows
Big Business
R***man
Minutemen
Flight
Minor Threat
Big Black
Shellac
Karp
Scratch Acid
Wipers
Pixies


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: I'm Through With Fender
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:10 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:13 pm
Posts: 1633
This is almost 12 years old at this point, but still very relevant from a major artists perspective:

http://www.salon.com/2000/06/14/love_7/singleton/

_________________
Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: I'm Through With Fender
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:10 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:10 pm
Posts: 5646
Location: Gateway to the West
I have refrained from getting into this one, partially because I said over 15 years ago that Digitazation of Music would be the death of music. And that is right were we are heading, we are so overloaded with "Hundreds" of new bands...that I would challenge and say 99% of those bands should stay annonymous. Most of the newer bands are crap...there are a few good new ones out there, but again most simply are not up to snuff...the reason so many of them want to put "Thier Music" out there on the web is because no record company or radio station would play thier crap.

Piracy is/was a problem caused by the 99% of musicians jumping headlong into a media that they did not think through. This includes those big name acts and those musicians that are good enough to play your local pub, but certainly do not have the talent to be "The Next Big Thing" and should only be heard in said local pub.

There is no putting the genie back in the bottle and there is not going to be a good outcome to any of this, we just have to deal it no matter which side of this issue you come down on, neither is right, it is just what it is...technology doing us in because we didn't fully understand it or control what we did with it...and we are doing the same thing with the internet, that doesn't mean it doesn't have some good uses, but not all the uses folks have come up with are good or valid.

FWIW

T2

_________________
-----------------------------------------------------------
What time is it? It's Fender Time.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: I'm Through With Fender
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:01 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:59 pm
Posts: 1152
Location: Surf City, USA
Floyd_The_Barber wrote:
For the third or fourth time, on the site I use many artists upload their own releases. Most artists of this generation give their full support to piracy. In my experience (ie speaking to band members after shows) they rarely give a damn how you got the music, they're just happy you heard it and even liked it enough to come out to a show and buy a shirt. These are young people who are trying to make a living form their music, mind you.


I grant that there are indeed some "young" bands that don't mind this.

But the question is, what about everybody else?


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: I'm Through With Fender
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:35 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:50 pm
Posts: 7998
Location: ʎɹʇunoɔ ǝsoɹ pןıʍ
Collective Soul
Hmmmm.... :idea:

Metallica
Hmmmm.... :idea:

Regurgitated rhetoric
:roll:

_________________
Image
Just think of how awesome a guitar player you could have been by now if you had only spent the last 10 years practicing instead of obsessing over pickups and roasted maple necks.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: I'm Through With Fender
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:35 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:59 pm
Posts: 1152
Location: Surf City, USA
BMW,

Not sure what you're saying here. I'm not really current on what Metallica and Collective Soul are doing. Are you saying because they're giving away their music that everyone else should be forced to do so as well or that it in some way makes piracy OK?


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: I'm Through With Fender
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:59 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:39 pm
Posts: 3399
Location: teh webz?
T2Stratman wrote:
I have refrained from getting into this one, partially because I said over 15 years ago that Digitazation of Music would be the death of music. And that is right were we are heading, we are so overloaded with "Hundreds" of new bands...that I would challenge and say 99% of those bands should stay annonymous. Most of the newer bands are crap...there are a few good new ones out there, but again most simply are not up to snuff...the reason so many of them want to put "Thier Music" out there on the web is because no record company or radio station would play thier crap.

Piracy is/was a problem caused by the 99% of musicians jumping headlong into a media that they did not think through. This includes those big name acts and those musicians that are good enough to play your local pub, but certainly do not have the talent to be "The Next Big Thing" and should only be heard in said local pub.

There is no putting the genie back in the bottle and there is not going to be a good outcome to any of this, we just have to deal it no matter which side of this issue you come down on, neither is right, it is just what it is...technology doing us in because we didn't fully understand it or control what we did with it...and we are doing the same thing with the internet, that doesn't mean it doesn't have some good uses, but not all the uses folks have come up with are good or valid.

FWIW

T2

you don't like them =/= they aren't good


Just because it's not the same blues rock guitarist for the thousandth time doesn't mean it's not good.

_________________
Favorite bands:

Melvins
The Jesus Lizard
Cows
Big Business
R***man
Minutemen
Flight
Minor Threat
Big Black
Shellac
Karp
Scratch Acid
Wipers
Pixies


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: I'm Through With Fender
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:28 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:33 pm
Posts: 484
Location: Australia, VIC
piracy is good for independent bands. usually with bands that obviously dont want to give there music away for free, i respect that and buy it, and they wont upload there music to bandcamp and sell it for free :roll: . but bands that upload there music to sites like bandcamp, and give it away for free, then thats a clear sign that they want people to listen to there music for free, dont you think :roll:

_________________
former user radio_friendly_unit_shifter


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: I'm Through With Fender
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:47 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:10 pm
Posts: 13467
Location: Palm Beach County FL
The issue is not with artists who post their own work for the interest of the larger audience. The issue is with those who post an artist's work without consent for the interest of the larger audience.

_________________
"Another day in paradise!"


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: I'm Through With Fender
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:50 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:39 pm
Posts: 3399
Location: teh webz?
ZZDoc wrote:
The issue is not with artists who post their own work for the interest of the larger audience. The issue is with those who post an artist's work without consent for the interest of the larger audience.

It still benefits the band, and while many artists don't post it themselves, you'll find very few who actually oppose. Most simply don't care.

_________________
Favorite bands:

Melvins
The Jesus Lizard
Cows
Big Business
R***man
Minutemen
Flight
Minor Threat
Big Black
Shellac
Karp
Scratch Acid
Wipers
Pixies


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: I'm Through With Fender
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:57 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:33 pm
Posts: 484
Location: Australia, VIC
ZZDoc wrote:
The issue is not with artists who post their own work for the interest of the larger audience. The issue is with those who post an artist's work without consent for the interest of the larger audience.

so, if i cant get an album ANYWHERE else, it virtuall doesnt exist in CD form, i shouldnt listen to it?
im pretty sure alot of bands would want you to pirate there music if you cant find it anywhere

i can name a couple of bands that have gotten a pretty big in the underground scene purely from piracy

_________________
former user radio_friendly_unit_shifter


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: I'm Through With Fender
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:00 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:10 pm
Posts: 5646
Location: Gateway to the West
Floyd_The_Barber wrote:
T2Stratman wrote:
I have refrained from getting into this one, partially because I said over 15 years ago that Digitazation of Music would be the death of music. And that is right were we are heading, we are so overloaded with "Hundreds" of new bands...that I would challenge and say 99% of those bands should stay annonymous. Most of the newer bands are crap...there are a few good new ones out there, but again most simply are not up to snuff...the reason so many of them want to put "Thier Music" out there on the web is because no record company or radio station would play thier crap.

Piracy is/was a problem caused by the 99% of musicians jumping headlong into a media that they did not think through. This includes those big name acts and those musicians that are good enough to play your local pub, but certainly do not have the talent to be "The Next Big Thing" and should only be heard in said local pub.

There is no putting the genie back in the bottle and there is not going to be a good outcome to any of this, we just have to deal it no matter which side of this issue you come down on, neither is right, it is just what it is...technology doing us in because we didn't fully understand it or control what we did with it...and we are doing the same thing with the internet, that doesn't mean it doesn't have some good uses, but not all the uses folks have come up with are good or valid.

FWIW

T2

you don't like them =/= they aren't good


Just because it's not the same blues rock guitarist for the thousandth time doesn't mean it's not good.


Floyd = Sometimes Smokey MJ haze = sometimes shaky opinion.

I call em as I see em and make no apologies for my opinion.

T2

_________________
-----------------------------------------------------------
What time is it? It's Fender Time.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: I'm Through With Fender
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:03 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:10 pm
Posts: 13467
Location: Palm Beach County FL
Any artist who objects to having any and all of his/her/their work posted without consent should be afforded a blackout. Those who don't mind or care are irrelevant to the discussion. Don't understand why this is so difficult a concept to grasp. :?

_________________
"Another day in paradise!"


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 88 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: