I'm all for a day's wage for a day's work Doc, thing I understood was that if a sight posted copyrighted material then the whole site would be shut down even to users unaware of copyrighted content, therfore had the artists I mentioned above been users we may never have heard of them, even posting on our YT thread could have this site shut down and everyone who copies and pastes gets a warrant served, I would never expect to see any of the " superstars" upload all of their latest releases for free, only a small taster to ignite your interest on their own sites, and just as I'd be expected to pay for the privilage of seeing an artist play live and not expect an open door for all, I'd expect a price to be put on any artists (whatever domain) work, you get nothing for nothing so I've been informed, just seemed that to me it was wholesale shutdown.

Wouldn't be the first time govt attempted to kill a fly with a sledgehammer. Let's see what the industry can come up with given the lead. It appears that YT would have to shoulder the burden of keeping its house in order if it wanted to continue to host that kind of fare.

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"Another day in paradise!"

Quote.....
So are you saying that every high school band, orchestra, drama class, little kid ballet class, should have to pay royalties to the estate of Shakespeare, Mozart, Beethoven, and Euripides? Should public schools have to pay copyright fees to the estates of pre 1900 works studied in school? Should art classes have to pay for thr right to use pre-1900 art in art class?

If earnings are received from the performances...Yes..Absolutely...However most School Theatrical and Musical Performances are free to the public, thus... No... But the Public Schools did initially pay for the use of the material when it acquired such material, be it sheet music, scores, or theater play scripts ( if that is the correct wording )

What do you mean by Pre-1900 Art...
Do you mean the actual paintings or the style...
Incorporating the style in an educational format is one thing, but actually using that style to paint and pass off the results as Pre-1900 would be an entirely different matter..
This is why laws have to be specific as well as clear as to their intent, and cannot be just one big blanket...

Quote.....
Remember under SOPA, use a Michael Jackson song in your slide show, go to jail for five years. Kill Michael Jackson, go to jail for four years.

That doesn't really work, you are comparing legal statutes of two very different criminal elements, ( Since you once again brought up Michael Jackson, personally I feel that his entourage as well as the parents should have some culpability in what became a Freak Show.
That is all I'll say on this subject but it is obscene and grotesque to say the least. )
The Doctor was found to be negligent, careless and I believe reckless endangerment was a description of his conduct and medical or lack of medical care and attention....
This could be an entire separate thread but it is drifting off course of the subject at hand..

Which is, When does, Copyright Infringement begin in the course of using recorded works, performing such works and most importantly, how much lattitude (if any ) is allowed in performing such works or recording such works......
I believe it is referred to as " Artistic License " which means to some to.. "Do As One Pleases"....
Rather than an interpretation dictated by the Artists Style...( which of course may also land you in Hot Water....

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"C'est parti mon Kiki "

I have over 8000 that I've collected over a few months. The sad fact is, buying EVERY SINGLE album you want simply isn't a viable option for someone who wants to hear so much music. Of course I still buy here and there, in fact I'd say it's about 50/50, but without "other" means, I just wouldn't be able to get all of the music I listen to, including some of my biggest influences. Hell, there's even stuff that I wouldn't be able to buy if I tried. Piracy is good. It let's a band's name get out, it let's the listener get more music, and in some cases, say, a limited release or out of print album, obscire single, etc., it let's the listener get things they otherwise would not be able to.

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Favorite bands:

Melvins
The Jesus Lizard
Cows
Big Business
R***man
Minutemen
Flight
Minor Threat
Big Black
Shellac
Karp
Scratch Acid
Wipers
Pixies

Also, regardless of your views on the matter, I urge everyone in this topic to read up on ACTA. It's basically a much more powerful, more dangerous, multinational SOPA. It's EXTREMELY dangerous and we need to do whatever we can to stop it.

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Favorite bands:

Melvins
The Jesus Lizard
Cows
Big Business
R***man
Minutemen
Flight
Minor Threat
Big Black
Shellac
Karp
Scratch Acid
Wipers
Pixies

Floyd supports a philosophy which says, in essence, that if you can't get what you want, you get what you need, by hook or by crook. Damn the torpedoes!!! Full speed ahead!!! Greed is good!! Buy what you can, steal what you can't buy, but certainly do not deprive yourself of anything, ever.

Seems to me that this is the contemporary attitude I was alluding to in my earlier comments.

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"Another day in paradise!"

Nope. Most of the time I'm not taking any profit from a band because, again, there is in fact no other way to get the music, and as a result no way they could get my money for it. Hell, the site I use, many artists upload their own music. And it's not like I just screw them over, I go to shows regularly and buy s***tons of merch.

You also still seem to ignore the fact that many of this generation's artists are fully supportive of piracy. In the long run, they make more money because of it because more people hear the music. If it's free, people will figure "hey, why not?". If it's $10, somebody is more like ly to say "why the hell would I spend my money on some nobody band I've never even heard of?". If people buy it, they get less fans, less merch sales, and lower show attendance, but a few cents or a couple bucks from the 50 albums they sold. If people download it, they get more fans, higher attendance, and a hell of a lot more merch sold, and piles of money from said merch sales. Whether you like it or not, piracy has been absolutely nothing but good for independent music.

_________________
Favorite bands:

Melvins
The Jesus Lizard
Cows
Big Business
R***man
Minutemen
Flight
Minor Threat
Big Black
Shellac
Karp
Scratch Acid
Wipers
Pixies

Also, while this is directed toward many colleges' stance on the issue, I feel it is quite relevant here as well.

http://i.imgur.com/2CaHg.jpg

EDIT: image is too big to post, just click the link

_________________
Favorite bands:

Melvins
The Jesus Lizard
Cows
Big Business
R***man
Minutemen
Flight
Minor Threat
Big Black
Shellac
Karp
Scratch Acid
Wipers
Pixies

It should also be noted that if a CD or vinyl is not available, more often than not, it is the only way to get higher quality than 256 kbps.

_________________
Favorite bands:

Melvins
The Jesus Lizard
Cows
Big Business
R***man
Minutemen
Flight
Minor Threat
Big Black
Shellac
Karp
Scratch Acid
Wipers
Pixies

When a school buys sheet music it is only buying the music. Even when it is a free performance they still have to pay the performance rights to non-public domain music. So you want them to pay for the right to play 200 year old music. Or schools to pay for a 2500 year old play? That is why public domain was created. To use classics for learning. But you want people to pay forever. That is not how it works.

Also the art class thing. Showing works in the style of. Text book makers and art teachers who want to use post 1900 art for educational purpose have to pay for it. Under the pre 1978 law they could have used the art for free for educational. Now they still have to pay the rights.

The MJ thing was a joke. You know things people say to get others to laugh by showing the absurdity in everyday life? As for the artistic freedom part? Any clip over seven seconds will land you in the hot water.

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Your pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding. It is the bitter potion by which the physician within you heals your sick self. Therefore, trust the physician and drink his remedy in silence and tranquility.-Khalil Gibran

I'm a hypocrite, in the sense that I won't download an official CD or song from a file sharing website, but I love (and collect) bootlegs, especially live stuff.

My favorite band (alluded to in ZZ Doc's name-- ) never put out a full concert album, CD or DVD until a few years ago. They put out two albums that were half-live and half-studio (Fandango! and XXX), and a few B-side-only live tracks here and there, but until they recorded "Live From Texas' (of which I was there at the filming/recording!) and "Double Down Live", there were no official live concert films or recordings of the band.

Thus, I sought out (and continue to seek out) some bootleg recordings and DVDs...Should I have done that? Probably not, but that's where my hypocrisy kicks in...if it's not commercially available, I'll trade for it or even buy it, even thought the artist won't see a penny. However, if it's an official release, there's no way I'd file share it.

Oh well, we all have tagled webs we weave, don't we? (uh-oh, that's paraphrasing a famous poet/playwright! I'm gonna have to pay his estate!)

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Good Vibes To Y'all!



Screamin' Armadillos
Texas Roadhouse Music
Guitar/Slide Guitar/Harp/Vocals

Floyd, if the bands wanted to give their stuff away. They would have done it. Plenty of bands have put out free songs on the internet. But by virtue of them putting them for sale as CDs, that means they'd like to make some money off them.

If an artist wants to sell CDs and get some repayment for all the hard work they put into writing and recording their songs, they should be able to do that without a bunch of pirate sites posting their music and giving it away to whomever wants to it.

If, however, the artist wants to give it away to influence people, sell more T-shirts, reach a larger audience, etc. They can do that pretty easily as things stand.

What's impossible right now is to put something out for sale without a bunch of sites putting it up for free. Obviously SOPA is not the answer and I'm not sure what is.

But in the end, it should be up to the artist. Wouldn't you want to make your own decisions with your own music?

Highline wrote:

[Floyd, if the bands wanted to give their stuff away. They would have done it. Plenty of bands have put out free songs on the internet. But by virtue of them putting them for sale as CDs, that means they'd like to make some money off them.

If an artist wants to sell CDs and get some repayment for all the hard work they put into writing and recording their songs, they should be able to do that without a bunch of pirate sites posting their music and giving it away to whomever wants to it.

If, however, the artist wants to give it away to influence people, sell more T-shirts, reach a larger audience, etc. They can do that pretty easily as things stand.

What's impossible right now is to put something out for sale without a bunch of sites putting it up for free. Obviously SOPA is not the answer and I'm not sure what is.

But in the end, it should be up to the artist. Wouldn't you want to make your own decisions with your own music?

That's it in a nutshell, IMHO.

_________________
"Another day in paradise!"

Reading between the lines of this link is rather disturbing....
Pillage... .... Plundered....

Pillage-Pillaging refers to a wartime activity, acquiring others property by force often violently..
Plunder-Plundering is also in the same vein of forcefully removing the property of others.....

If that is your motto than there will not be much sympathy when the arrest warrants arrive....
You might want to check into the legal response of employing such tactics...which are wrong.....
Piracy is not a trait I would aspire to but i guess a younger generation believes that it will show society how wrong their laws are and this will force them to adapt to a free-market concept..

Skewed rationale and quite incorrect. Piracy forces an opposing response quite contrary to what you are seeking....If you wish to access material owned by someone, you have to ask and if the answer is "No" ...then it is... "No"
Committing acts of Piracy isn't the answer it only reinforces the opposition.
Living in a Society means an acceptance of it's rules, wether you like them or not, if not and you find certain rules egregious, then your only option is to lobby for change, Not Steal, Plunder and Pillage.....
Of Course " The New Barbarians " is such a cool state of mind......

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"C'est parti mon Kiki "

i`ll admit to being quite angered by the opinion put forward by floyd (he`s merely the voice here, its a widespread opinion) that the current state of affairs is a good thing. But what i will say is that.. It is the way of things now. I honestly dont think theres any way of getting the cat back in the bag. And any attempt to go back to the old days (SOPA or otherwise) is admirable, but doomed. Unless we shut down all freedom and become communist china.... Which would kind of.. suck.

Unfortunately, i think we`d better grow to like floyds opinion as much as we can, or at least grow to live with it. Any profit from music now has to be from merch or live shows. Plenty of people back in the day used to moan about the fact that the music business was... .well a business!! They may have got their wish, its not going to be much of a business for long at this rate.

On the plus side, theres so much cr*p out there nowadays, everybody wants to be a rockstar. Maybe over the next generation when people realise theres rarely such a thing nowadays the playing field will become somewhat less cluttered again. We might even end up with less musicians, but most of the musicians out there having something they want to say again? Intead of just wanting to be doing it for the sake of it, because its cool. Musicians even be able to get work locally again instead of all the dreams of needing to be a touring star just to make a living.... Scenes might start popping up again instead of bands just copying the current trend... the whole thing starts moving full circle.. OK getting a bit carried away with myself now.

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`I prefer not to listen to music that I can't rip off or improve on` - Ian Dury