It is currently Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:47 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 88 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Author Message
Post subject: I'm Through With Fender
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:35 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:13 pm
Posts: 1633
And Gibson. And Taylor. And many others. I can not in good conscience support a company that supports legislation of such egregious civil rights violations as SOPA.

It's not much and will make no difference to a juggernaut like FMIC, but I can't just stand by, so I''m boycotting any SOPA supporters I can.

This unfortunately leaves me with only my G&L Legacy and a Line 6 Amp=\

I would implore anyone who has a vested interest in free speech do the same.

_________________
Image


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: I'm Through With Fender
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:24 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:56 pm
Posts: 4033
Location: 16 Miles North Of The Red River
Pushing SOPA/PIPA aside (I understand the idea behind the legislation, but  disagree with it's methods and overall provisions), there's really no major corporation that hasn't supported some nefarious agenda, legislation, purpose or practice at some point, for their own profit or benefit, the public be damned.

If we were to stop business transactions with every company that does something "wrong", we would end up scratching out an existence on a little plot of dirt somewhere, growing our own food, growing/making our own textiles for clothing, etc...and then we would have to worry about making sure our mule that we use for plowing wasn't born in a corporate barn (don't forget to make sure your plowshare isn't made by some evil conglomerate, too) and the seeds we sow aren't from another corporation with nefarious designs on our lives.

The sentiment is admirable, but in practice, it's unsustainable and impractical.

You've chosen something that you can control--there are guitar manufacturers that have not PUBLICLY supported SOPA. That's fine, and I hope that your protest makes Fender and Gibson and everyone else re-assess their stand and support of a law that could severly limit the movement of information and knowledge...but notice I mentioned companies not "publicly" supporting the legislation? Unfortunately, we can't always know what the owners/controlling personnel of these companies think...they may have helped draft the legislation on some level, we don't know.

...and at least Fender and Gibson are being consistent: remember the ridiculous lawsuit regarding the PRS Singlecut and Fender's desire to disallow anyone to make a Strat- or Tele-style guitar? Those were stupid ideas, but ultimately they failed because you can't legislate certain things...SOPA will fail, too, either by not passing, by being declared unconstitutional or because we'll find other (non-prosecutable) loopholes to disseminate information.

But if you're going to follow this to the ultimate conclusion, we'll never hear from you again, because some manufacturer for the components of "Device X" might have supported SOPA. Since you are "done" with those companies, you'll have to remove those components...you'll see how well your computer, car, telephone, television, radio, microwave, cooktop, toaster oven, kitchen sink, tennis shoe, underwear, etc. will work without that component...

_________________
Good Vibes To Y'all!

Image

Screamin' Armadillos
Texas Roadhouse Music
Guitar/Slide Guitar/Harp/Vocals


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: I'm Through With Fender
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:58 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:13 pm
Posts: 1633
Is it futile? Absolutely. And impractical. I'm aware of this. And doomed to fail. But I do what I can.

_________________
Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: I'm Through With Fender
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:06 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:56 pm
Posts: 4033
Location: 16 Miles North Of The Red River
Ceallach wrote:
Is it futile? Absolutely. And impractical. I'm aware of this. And doomed to fail. But I do what I can.

That's the spirit! :)

_________________
Good Vibes To Y'all!

Image

Screamin' Armadillos
Texas Roadhouse Music
Guitar/Slide Guitar/Harp/Vocals


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: I'm Through With Fender
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:18 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:13 pm
Posts: 19026
Location: Illinois, USA
Ceallach, I admire your veracity and determination and hope that you will consider that in today's environment if a company doesn't do certain things the governments way the government will assuredly have their way with said company, by hook or by crook, said government being able to bend it's own rules as it see's fitting to it's desired ends. This has been displayed for us all many times over the last years. Stick around and lets see how this all plays out Bro.

_________________
you can save the world with your guitar one love song at a time it's just better, more fun, easier with a fender solid body electric guitar or electric bass guitar.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: I'm Through With Fender
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:20 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:45 pm
Posts: 1980
Location: texas
Ceallach wrote:
Is it futile? Absolutely. And impractical. I'm aware of this. And doomed to fail. But I do what I can.

:lol: I like that!

_________________
Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: I'm Through With Fender
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:49 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:35 pm
Posts: 1296
i really, really appreciate your passion ceallach. sometimes i think i'm the only one who thinks this way.
i'm sick of this kind of BS.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: I'm Through With Fender
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:24 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:17 pm
Posts: 78
Location: Los Angeles
I work for a news media outlet and I'm also a member of AFTRA - what our companies are supporting is not limiting free speech, but keeping our content from being stolen. Let's say I worked for... CBS... And on the West Coast we have How I Met Your Mother air at 8 PM... Using online file sharing websites, many people on the West Coast can watch the new show by 6 PM PST. That is what all of these companies are trying to prevent. I'm personally not in favor of all of the legislation proposed... But I am in support of stopping illegal content sharing. It loses these companies a lot of money. It doesn't matter how big they are - it's pretty much stealing.

But like President Obama (who said he won't sign anything unless it's more specific), many companies are just in support of trying to set up restrictions to protect content owned by certain companies/corporations.

I hope that makes sense.

_________________
FCS JM BLACK1, FCS SRV #1, FCS Hendrix Monterey, FCS La Cabronita, JM Sunburst Strat, Martin 00-45SC, Martin Bellezza Bianca, Martin Bellezza Nera , Martin OMJM, Gibson 1960 50th Anniv LP, Dumble SSS, Two-Rock JM Sig Proto, Two-Rock Studio Pro.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: I'm Through With Fender
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:55 pm
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:40 pm
Posts: 2594
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Reports that Fender is on the official list of supporters of the Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA) are false. Fender has no affiliation with the current movement. Please note that Fender does not appear on the list of supporters as posted and recognized by the United States House of Representatives’ judiciary committee:

SOPA List

_________________
Director at Fender. Guitarist & guitar collector. All views/opinions expressed here are my own and not Fender’s.

Follow me on Instagram:
@brad_on_guitar

And on Facebook:
facebook.com/bradonguitar


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: I'm Through With Fender
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:23 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:39 pm
Posts: 3399
Location: teh webz?
Solid Body Love Songs wrote:
Ceallach, I admire your veracity and determination and hope that you will consider that in today's environment if a company doesn't do certain things the governments way the government will assuredly have their way with said company, by hook or by crook, said government being able to bend it's own rules as it see's fitting to it's desired ends. This has been displayed for us all many times over the last years. Stick around and lets see how this all plays out Bro.

It's actually the other way around here. It's the government doing things the corporations' way. Money can buy anything, ESPECIALLY legislation.

_________________
Favorite bands:

Melvins
The Jesus Lizard
Cows
Big Business
R***man
Minutemen
Flight
Minor Threat
Big Black
Shellac
Karp
Scratch Acid
Wipers
Pixies


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: I'm Through With Fender
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:57 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 7:23 pm
Posts: 56
I will probably get flamed for this but......
The current legislation is badly flawed. Have you read the bills? I have. I started in the studio business in the '60s. You folks looking for a break probably look at labels as the enemy. They are not.

Have you thought where the money from sales goes? The artist, the writer(s), the producer(s) and the label. Yep. But that same sales money also ends up at the studio level so they can buy new gear. When studios buy gear, the gear maker gets a bit too allowing R&D and better gear. Where does the money for tour buses come from? Yep from those same sales. If you are a pro or want to be, think about this when you download an illegal copy. It hurts all of us from the top to the bottom.

_________________
Am Deluxe Stratocaster HSS
Am Standard Stratocaster
Am Standard Telecaster
Blacktop Telecaster
Gretsch 6120

Pignose
Super Champ XD
60'sTwin Reverb


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: I'm Through With Fender
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:07 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:12 pm
Posts: 6355
Location: Albemarle, NC
As a former AFTRA member myself, I understand JesseDKnutson's point of view. AFM members understand the root problem of piracy in the music business clearer as their quarterly royalty checks have shrunk three-fold over the past 20 years. I also understand the point of view of everyone else who posted here. This law didn't address the root issue of media piracy, but relied instead upon penalizing the USA based enablers of it.

The bill is dead. So that elephant is out of the room.

Seems to me the biggest brouhaha in the media was about internet search engines and Wikipedia doing a one day protest blackout of service. From a musician's point of view this blackout was done primarily to protect the financial interests of these Internet businesses. The search engines sell guaranteed inclusion placement in search results to offshore pirates who are illegally either selling or otherwise distributing copyrighted material without compensating the rights holders in the USA and UK.

Sure it is illegal, but when the piracy originates from Romania or Tajikistan there isn't much US courts can do to the actual distributors. There is no law against a US based search engine company selling paid search engine inclusion to offshore media pirates. Technically the US based search engine companies are not distributing the pirated media so they aren't breaking any existing laws.

YES, the bill was bad, too general and sweeping. But untold billions have been lost to musicians via file sharing and other illegal distribution which now is mostly coming from offshore companies and individuals doing it for profit.

It is not just the record companies or film companies getting hurt. Media piracy hurts everyone from the producer and label promoters to musicians who play sessions down to the roadies. Heck, even DJ's aren't getting as much payola these days. Everyone from the top down gets hurt because there just isn't as much cash to go around as there otherwise would have been without piracy. Like the old saying goes, "doo-doo rolls downhill."

If you ever played on a film/tv soundtrack or if you have an old song of yours pulled for inclusion in a film like "THE BIG CHILL" for example only to find out that 12 million people downloaded the property (and it is a property) for free, you quickly realize the reason why you aren't getting paid as much as you expected to have cleared. The royalties just aren't there to distribute from those millions of pirated files. Songwriters have to write multiple number 1 hits to make as money as they made on a single number 1 hit 20 years ago.

The lower royalties really hurt when the mortgage or power bill are both due and you have to decide which to pay because you simply don't have the money to pay both. If you've never been in that situation watching your royalty checks shrink, you probably are not a recording pro or in show business of any sort.

File sharing and illegal distribution (media piracy) has changed the music business and not for the better. Most of the smaller specialized record companies have been forced out of business, selling their catalogs to larger companies who aren't doing as well as they once were either.

Something needs to be done, but it needs to address the specific issue of media piracy and copyright infringement without infringing upon personal liberties or infringing upon free speech. The failed SOPA didn't do that so it is toast. There has to be a better way.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: I'm Through With Fender
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:28 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:38 am
Posts: 4333
Location: Tennessee
Amen Bro. Dave! :D


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: I'm Through With Fender
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:07 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:59 pm
Posts: 1152
Location: Surf City, USA
Rebelsoul wrote:
Amen Bro. Dave! :D


+1


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: I'm Through With Fender
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:54 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:27 pm
Posts: 3448
Location: Connecticut
I'm a bit miffed here as to the direction of some protesters....
1st... Thank You Brad for making the point as to Fender's stand on this issue.

Instead of boycotting corporations and their products, would it not make more sense to be a bit more vigilant and not engage in file sharing of which the contents were not authorized....Not downloading obviously pirated files......
It's sort of like the tail wagging the dog here. Everyone is screaming about legislation but we've all gone online and clicked on content that was not authorized for distribution.
If there is a place to point boycotting efforts..then that is the people sending out pirated files for use by everyone.....

There seems to be a serious misunderstanding of property and it's use in the public context....
One of the primary reasons as to why the Occupy Wall-Street Movement ran into a legal brickwall.

Much is available for Visual/Audio Entertainment, however, being able to watch and listen does not include the right to Capture, re-edit, repackage and send out in a different format.
A public park is available to all, but is not owned by any one person, is actually owned/operated in a custodial role, by the city or town or state, which is payed for by public funding (taxes). So this means that everyone can use it but only in the context of the rules which ensure that everyone can use it. ( Paradox )
Once One claims a personal hold on the Park ( File ) it is no longer public and automatically engages a response to the contrary...

I see my analogy is a bit obtuse but this Piracy Issue is not so simple as some would like to have everyone believe, that's on both sides of the issue..... :?: :idea: :?:

_________________
"C'est parti mon Kiki "


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 88 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: