"The protest has been endorsed by many local labor groups, such as AFL-CIO United Steel Workers Local 675, AFL-CIO USW Carwash Workers Campaign, Koreatown Immigrant Workers Alliance (KIWA), ENLACE International, and the International Action Center."

Unfortunately you brought this up as the above is from the article that you posted.

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you can save the world with your guitar one love song at a time it's just better, more fun, easier with a fender solid body electric guitar or electric bass guitar.

Tom Morello is very pro union... a lot of talk of that website is very much for unions...

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Kid: "Hey Smokey! Where did you get your name?"
Smokey the Bear: "Well..."
(former user jimbo612)

I don't really care about unions. Are you saying since they endorsed it that its not true or wrong to treat people that way? You have an anti union agenda. I'm just bringing up something I think anyone who purchases Fender products has a right to know. I'm pro American and still believe American craftsmanship is best and will always support my fellow countrymen. You can buy all the foreign made cheaper products you want. That is your right and I respect it . but if I want to discuss the inhumane and miserable conditions that Fender forces upon its workers than that is my right and that video is fact. It may have been used as propaganda but the details are facts. All fender customers have a right to know this before they make their purchase.

alvin67, what you are posting is false and troublesome. I for one wouldn't believe a word that you write, ever. Talk music and instruments is a good thing, take your protests elsewhere if you would.

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you can save the world with your guitar one love song at a time it's just better, more fun, easier with a fender solid body electric guitar or electric bass guitar.

Some people cannot be reasoned with. Some companies cannot be reasoned with. Some people applaud some companies that cannot be reasoned with. What are you gonna do? It's a free country. You can't force people to think if they don't want to. All you can do is let them run off at the mouth and hope that with enough time they will eventually expose their own ignorance.

Two redeeming things about this place. One is the "Foes" option. If someone proves to be an annoyance too often the website gives one the power to silence them while in your presence. That's a cool option which I have employed on occaision. The other is the rules of this forum which state no political discussions allowed, among other topics. If a heated argument develops one only has to hit the exclamation point button on the offender's post and the problem will be solved by management.

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Just think of how awesome a guitar player you could have been by now if you had only spent the last 10 years practicing instead of obsessing over pickups and roasted maple necks.

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http://www.guitarmotel.com

If you don't believe me then prove me wrong. I did not make any false statements and I am not trying to be troublesome if it seems that way I am very sorry. I just feel as an owner of several Fender products I have a right to know where and how my products are being made after all its my money. I also feel every Fender customer has a right to know and as you stated in your previous post this is and will always be a free country. I am just expressing that freedom. You may disagree but its still my right as it is yours. There are no politics in this. I have not mentioned politics or unions. That's what you have done. This was simply a human issue for me and I don't like to see human treated like this anywhere.

that statement is false because Fender treats it's workers quite well, if you want proof of that ask our moderator.

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you can save the world with your guitar one love song at a time it's just better, more fun, easier with a fender solid body electric guitar or electric bass guitar.

Alvin67-
It sounds like you are seeking agreement and approval regarding your opinion and this particular article...however, the article was extremely biased, and no counterpoint was offered (always a red flag that indicates more of a biased op-ed piece than actual journalism). 
The posting of (and call for any and all to join in) the protest schedule as well as name-dropping of (left-wing/anarchist activist) Tom Morello sends up even more red flags.
If the article was more journalistically sound, you might meet a more receptive audience. However, you have stumbled upon a group--although politically diverse--that is able to "read between the lines" in any report. One of the things I like about this Forum is the intelligent dialog between people both liberal and conservative (and we truly are). A second thing I like is the fact that we mostly steer away from political discussions, thus keeping the bickering to a minimum.

I too lament the mistreatment of any employee by any company. However, based on the bias of the presentation and the presence of an Asian Pete Seeger in the opening moments of the video, it seems the video was made solely to stir up anger at Cort rather than open dialog about what Cort might have been doing wrong.
After watching the lion's share of the video, I am wondering where the "horrible" mistreatment was to be found. I have had worse jobs (dirtier, more dangerous, lower paying, lying supervisors, corrupt corporate executives and low job security) here in the US. I have trained people who ended up replacing or supervising me. 
Is it fair? No. 
Is life fair? No.
So I high-tailed it to other (better) jobs as soon as I could.

The article seems to fall into line with your world view and your political outlook...however, since not everyone shares that outlook, you cannot expect everyone to instantly link arms and march to Scottsdale.

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Good Vibes To Y'all!



Screamin' Armadillos
Texas Roadhouse Music
Guitar/Slide Guitar/Harp/Vocals

Alvin, maybe you would feel better if you just sold, or better yet, gave away all your Fender guitars and gear. You could give it all to poor people to assuage the guilt that seems to be boiling out of your pores.

Your article, posted on a very non-objective web site, makes very clear mention of union support for the article, video and everything else on there. That makes it suspect to most of us on this Forum. And we really don't like being lectured by "Fender owners" who seem to have a real problem with Fender in general.

Get rid of your Fender gear and buy a couple of those Gibson guitars with fretboards made of illegally imported rosewood. You'll feel better, I'm sure and you can turn your rabble-rousing talents to another life-threatening issue.

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Dennis in CR
Rockin' since 1963

I'm not asking anyone to link arms with me. I just think I have a right to inform Fender customers on this issue. I'll leave it up to the people to decide if the article was journalistically sound or not. I'm sorry you had worse jobs but that doesn't make it ok for others to be mistreated. I agree with you life isn't fair and I'm glad things worked out for you but if this article and video of the workers is false and not true than someone needs to prove it. If so I will change my opinion on Fender

That is a great idea. I really think I will do that. I certainly would feel better. Like I mentioned before if the web-site is fiction than prove it and I will change my tune. I'm not lecturing anyone you have the right to ignore me that is the best way to make someone go away. If this story and website were false and so non- objective than no one would care but they do and I can see that by the replies I'm getting. So prove me wrong.

That's not exactly true. There are a significant number of regular and respected members who have expressed many and continuing complaints about Fender. Perhaps not typically with regard to international humanitarian concerns, I'll admit that much but negative comments nonetheless. We do in fact tolerate those who have issues with Fender on a regular basis. A trip to the amp forums will confirm this beyond any doubt whatsoever. Fender has big shoulders. They don't need puny little us to defend them. Further, we also tolerate people who have opinions which do not conform to our own. We don't even need to go outside this Lounge for proof of that. Any cursory glance at daily topics of conversation will be proof enough. There have been no out of the ordinary ocurrances arising from this topic except for the specious inferences made by those who insist on injecting a political slant where there was none originally intended. USA and Canada are both chock full of folks who see political issues in non-political things and speak out on a regular basis. If they have the right to speak their minds then this fellow has the right to speak his.

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Just think of how awesome a guitar player you could have been by now if you had only spent the last 10 years practicing instead of obsessing over pickups and roasted maple necks.

I remember posting a thread concerning the plight of the Cort workers about 2 years ago and at the time stated that Fender was the only company in the western world that sat down and met with the Cort workers and their conditions.There have been people from Cort factories charged and convicted of various abuses and there has been documented cases and film footage of conditions and abuses.Whatever one's stand on this there's no denying that these abuses went on and were a matter of international interest.

Through the help of international trade unions and human rights organizations a lot of the affected Cort workers have set up a farming co-operative and are seeing successful returns on their labour. I don't exactly remember the website but I believe the words "cortaction" were in it.

EDIT: the website is: http://www.cortaction.wordpress.com/

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'65 Strat,65 Mustang,65 Jaguar,4 more Strats,3 vintage Vox guitars,5 Vox amps,'69 Bassman with a '68 2-15 Bassman cab,36 guitars total-15asst'd amps total,2 vintage '60s Hammond organs & a myriad of effects-with a few rare vintage ones.

Yes, you have the right...but in light of how biased the article, video and your own comments are, it's debateable if there's an actual "issue" at all.


You're using an old political tactic used repeatedly to smear an organization or opponent. You know it's almost impossible to prove a negative.
For example:
Mudslinging Rabble-Rouser: "Mr. Candidate, this article says you're a racist and you beat your wife. How do you respond?"
Candidate: "Well, first of all, neither accusation is true. Secondly, the author of the article has no basis or evidence that either accusation is true. Lastly, the article is on an opposing party's website."
Mudslinging Rabble-Rouser: "But what proof do you have that you're not a wife-beating racist?"
Candidate: "As I said, there is nothing I have done to promote or condone those ideas or prove those charges, so the accusations are not true."
Mudslinging Rabble-Rouser: "But you have no proof that you're not."

After that, anything the Candidate says will seem defensive or self-serving.

What proof do you need?
Perhaps someone could edit the subtitles in the video to say, "Cort was wonderful, the supervisors love me and I love them, and I bless the day I got this job!" I don't know about you, but between the lack of raw video (showing everything the workers said) and (ultimately) the fact that I don't speak Korean, I cannot trust the message on the video.

Did Cort do them wrong? Perhaps.
Do we have any unbiased, balanced evidence that Cort did do them wrong? Not at all.

All we have is a very biased article and video that I have never seen referenced at any other source (including guitar and music magazines/websites, industry magazines/websites, business magazines/websites, etc.). This is the type of information a latter-day hippy such as the editor of Guitar Player Mike Molenda would drool over (I mean that as neither a compliment nor an insult, just as a description)...and this is the first I've heard of it.

So maybe the best retort would be, "Prove the story is accurate and the we will change our opinion about Fender.

PS-If you do decide to get rid of your Fender gear, please contact me. I want a Telecaster with a deep neck profile and/or a hardtail Stratocaster, if you have either.

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Good Vibes To Y'all!



Screamin' Armadillos
Texas Roadhouse Music
Guitar/Slide Guitar/Harp/Vocals