Harmonica/Vocal Mic

scarleg · **Posted:** Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:28 pm

I know this mostly a guitar forum but I know there are a couple harp players on the board.Is there anybody that has some experience with the Shure 545? or the shure SM57? I like my bullet mic, but looking for something I can use for vocals also.The Green Bullet doesn't really pull it off for me.It's a great little harp mic though.Just looking for some input from people who have actually used these mic's for blowing harp and vocals.
Thanks

Screamin' Armadillo · **Posted:** Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:20 pm

The SM57 is a good harp mic and decent vocal mic. It can be made into a great harp mic withthe addition of a "Bulletizer"...I put one on my SM57 and it's one of my two go-to microphones for harp.

Bulletizer:
http://blowsmeaway.com/bulletizer.html

Having said that, I have never really liked the SM57 for vocals. I have seen/heard other guys using them to good effect, but it always seems to make my vocals too focused on the mid-range, cutting some of the highs and lows out (just my experience, and it might be just my imagination).

The Shure 545 is a great harp mic, too...it can be used in much the same manner as a SM57. It seems to have a better "harp tone" than a true vocal tone.

For harp and vocals in one mic, the Shure SM58 sure (pardon the pun) works well. You'll get all the richness and clarity for vocals, and good for clean harp sounds...not so great for dirty harp.

It's hard to get a good harp and vocal mic all in one, IMHO. Something that gets good and nasty and Little-Walter-esque for harp often skews your vocals in a bad way. Something that is clear and rich for vocals is often too clean and bright for harp.

I'll set up some more links to some great harp accessories/pedals a little later...

Screamin' Armadillo · **Posted:** Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:22 pm

Great harp accessories and pedals:

http://www.lwharpamps.com/

scarleg · **Posted:** Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:26 pm

Screamin' Armadillo wrote:

The SM57 is a good harp mic and decent vocal mic. It can be made into a great harp mic withthe addition of a "Bulletizer"...I put one on my SM57 and it's one of my two go-to microphones for harp.

Bulletizer:
http://blowsmeaway.com/bulletizer.html

Having said that, I have never really liked the SM57 for vocals. I have seen/heard other guys using them to good effect, but it always seems to make my vocals too focused on the mid-range, cutting some of the highs and lows out (just my experience, and it might be just my imagination).

The Shure 545 is a great harp mic, too...it can be used in much the same manner as a SM57. It seems to have a better "harp tone" than a true vocal tone.

For harp and vocals in one mic, the Shure SM58 sure (pardon the pun) works well. You'll get all the richness and clarity for vocals, and good for clean harp sounds...not so great for dirty harp.

It's hard to get a good harp and vocal mic all in one, IMHO. Something that gets good and nasty and Little-Walter-esque for harp often skews your vocals in a bad way. Something that is clear and rich for vocals is often too clean and bright for harp.

I'll set up some more links to some great harp accessories/pedals a little later...

I was hoping you would chime in Armadillo.....thank you very much.I know what you mean about hard to get an all in one mic for vocal and harp.It seems that it is one or the other.I have to say I am not the best vocalist ,but consider myself above average when it comes to harmonica. I feel if ya blow the harp, ya pretty much gotta sing IMHO.It kinda goes hand in hand if ya know what I mean and if your gonna be in the front ,the rest of the band just kinda expects you to sing too.Thanks for the info ...much appreciated.
So the Sm57 is basically your mic you go to?
Of those two mics I asked about ...which one would you prefer? or if you were gonna buy 1 new mic ,which one might you lean toward ?.....just curious.I definitely had my eye on that bulletizer with either of those mics

Screamin' Armadillo · **Posted:** Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:39 am

Which mic I use most depends on what I'm doing...

The SM57 with the Bulletizer is really cool-sounding, but it might not work so great with vocals because the Bulletizer kinda "cups" the sound (harp or vocal) and ends up making everything sound a bit different--not bad, just different.

I have a 1940s Astatic 200s microphone that is my favorite harp mic. It sounds great, looks cool, it's easy to "cup" and get a good focused sound out of...but it's twenty-five years older than me and the elements are getting harder to find (and expensive), so I'm using it a bit less than I used to.

My drummer/producer likes the SM57 the best, but to be honest, I like the Astatic better...neither one of us are wrong.

I also have an old Shure Green Bullet; it's a bit "airier" in tone, and has it's own particular vibe.
An SM58 (I have one of those for my main vocal mic) sounds good for harp, too, although they're a little hard to cup.

I've never owned a 545. Everybody who has one seems to think the world of them, especially the older ones with the built-in mic holder (it kinda looks like you're holding a gun to your own mouth, though) :shock:

...I know Paul Butterfield preferred those mics, so, there you go.

As far as an equally good vocal and harp mic, I still think your best bet would be a SM58. It's "holdable" without any sort of attachment (like the Bulletizer, which cups your signal and gives you some airtightness) but it also give you some fidelity in your vocals. Ultimately, you may have to carry two mics.

I didn't ask you the two most important questions:
What is your style? Chicago blues, country & western, pop, rock...?
-and-
Also, are you playing harp through an amp or through the PA?

I think I may have added more confusion than help...sorry about that!

scarleg · **Posted:** Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:16 pm

Screamin' Armadillo wrote:

Which mic I use most depends on what I'm doing...

The SM57 with the Bulletizer is really cool-sounding, but it might not work so great with vocals because the Bulletizer kinda "cups" the sound (harp or vocal) and ends up making everything sound a bit different--not bad, just different.

I have a 1940s Astatic 200s microphone that is my favorite harp mic. It sounds great, looks cool, it's easy to "cup" and get a good focused sound out of...but it's twenty-five years older than me and the elements are getting harder to find (and expensive), so I'm using it a bit less than I used to.

My drummer/producer likes the SM57 the best, but to be honest, I like the Astatic better...neither one of us are wrong.

I also have an old Shure Green Bullet; it's a bit "airier" in tone, and has it's own particular vibe.
An SM58 (I have one of those for my main vocal mic) sounds good for harp, too, although they're a little hard to cup.

I've never owned a 545. Everybody who has one seems to think the world of them, especially the older ones with the built-in mic holder (it kinda looks like you're holding a gun to your own mouth, though) :shock:

...I know Paul Butterfield preferred those mics, so, there you go.

As far as an equally good vocal and harp mic, I still think your best bet would be a SM58. It's "holdable" without any sort of attachment (like the Bulletizer, which cups your signal and gives you some airtightness) but it also give you some fidelity in your vocals. Ultimately, you may have to carry two mics.

I didn't ask you the two most important questions:
What is your style? Chicago blues, country & western, pop, rock...?
-and-
Also, are you playing harp through an amp or through the PA?

I think I may have added more confusion than help...sorry about that!

Not confusing at all ,thanks again for the info.
As far as style goes I like to think I kind of have my own,but definitely leaning on Chicago blues style.A few of my favorite players would be Charlie Musslewhite,Billy Branch,Junior Wells,Sonny Boy Williamson,Sugar Blue,William Clarke,Jerry Portnoy,Kim Wilson,Mark Ford,Adam Gussow,Jason Ricci,the list goes on......but I think you got the picture.As far as amp or PA ,I play through my twin mostly.Although it is not modded for harp.I am looking into getting a dedicated harp amp.I use my twin for guitar also as I dont want to mod that amp for harp as it is a bit much for blowin harp.It actually is a bit much for guitar at home :lol:

.If you own a twin you know what I mean. :shock:

Loud

FrankieTheKid · **Posted:** Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:04 pm

shure 58 beta is a good mic also. it's a little hotter than the regular 58... very smooth high end. not crunchy like the the old astatic jt30, but a good clean mic.

Screamin' Armadillo · **Posted:** Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:36 am

FrankieTheKid wrote:

shure 58 beta is a good mic also. it's a little hotter than the regular 58... very smooth high end. not crunchy like the the old astatic jt30, but a good clean mic.

True dat...I was wondering you'd chime in on this one, Frankie. What us your rig for harp?

Screamin' Armadillo · **Posted:** Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:17 am

scarleg wrote:

Not confusing at all ,thanks again for the info.
As far as style goes I like to think I kind of have my own,but definitely leaning on Chicago blues style.A few of my favorite players would be Charlie Musslewhite,Billy Branch,Junior Wells,Sonny Boy Williamson,Sugar Blue,William Clarke,Jerry Portnoy,Kim Wilson,Mark Ford,Adam Gussow,Jason Ricci,the list goes on......but I think you got the picture.As far as amp or PA ,I play through my twin mostly.Although it is not modded for harp.I am looking into getting a dedicated harp amp.I use my twin for guitar also as I dont want to mod that amp for harp as it is a bit much for blowin harp.It actually is a bit much for guitar at home :lol:

.If you own a twin you know what I mean. :shock:

Loud

Ok, I get a better picture here...
You might try this: find the mic you're comfortable with (SM57, SM58 or Beta 58) for both harp and vocals.

It sounds like most of your influences are Chicago players. To get that raunchy growly tone, you might try this:
(1) Change your preamp tube on one of the channels from a 12AX7 to a 12AY7 or 12AU7. this will lower the gain, allowing you to turn up that channel (for more volume without feedback issues). It will not require any other mods. That way you can use that channel for harp and the other for guitar (I did this with my '63 reissue Vibroverb,'and it works great)
(2) get a low-gain overdrive pedal (like the link above to the Lone Wolf Blues Company). I have the Harp Break, and plan on buying the Harp Attack later). You can get all the nasty low-down goodness of Little Walter without the feedback and hum that a standard overdrive throws at you.
(3) considering you're not gonna be singing through your amp, you might consider a dedicated harp mic...whatever type you choose. I still prefer my old harp mics sonically and feel-wise over my Bulletized SM57...it's technically a "better" mic, but it just doesn't have the mojo of my old Astatic 200.
Of course, this is just my opinion and none of this may work for you.

ripitup555 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:18 pm

Complete harp novice here guys, went looking for a harp a while back looked for a C but ended up with a D ( shop run out of C's :roll:

), thing is the note at either end of the harp just isn't as clear as the rest of the harp, just a duller sound and harder to control, is there anyway to cure this.
Though I'd post this also seen this guy a while back break down Canned Heat's Blind Owl Boogie Chillin #2 solo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbbDWQO8 ... ure=relmfu
Then found this, same guy, is this what happens to harp players :?:

anyhoo this blew me away check these guys out Strat and Harp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGBUvtNL ... re=related
part two
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=cCT ... =endscreen

Screamin' Armadillo · **Posted:** Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:49 pm

ripitup555 wrote:

Complete harp novice here guys, went looking for a harp a while back looked for a C but ended up with a D ( shop run out of C's :roll:

), thing is the note at either end of the harp just isn't as clear as the rest of the harp, just a duller sound and harder to control, is there anyway to cure this.

What type of harp did you buy? If it was a good (~$30-$35+) Hohner Marine band, Blues Harp or Special 20 or a Tomco Lee Oskar, I'm surprised...if it was one of the cheapie $5-$10 promo harps, the quality control is a bit suspect and I would blame that (not insulting you or your harp if you bought one of those, but in this case you really do get what you pay for).

If it has a plastic comb, you might try soaking it in rubbing alcohol for an hour or so. It will dissolve anything that is stick in the reeds...but don't play it until all the alcohol is completely evaporated, or you'll get a very unwelcome sensation in your mouth and lungs the first time you play "cross" harp... :shock:

If it has a wood comb, many say you can soak it in water or alcohol, too, but I find it greatly shortens the life of the harp and makes the comb swell, damaging your lips when you play it next...

Some old-time guys would soak their new harps to break them in, and claimed it would make it sound "fatter", but I have not found that to be true at all...however, YMMV.

ripitup555 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:10 pm

Screamin' Armadillo wrote:

ripitup555 wrote:

Complete harp novice here guys, went looking for a harp a while back looked for a C but ended up with a D ( shop run out of C's :roll:

), thing is the note at either end of the harp just isn't as clear as the rest of the harp, just a duller sound and harder to control, is there anyway to cure this.

What type of harp did you buy? If it was a good (~$30-$35+) Hohner Marine band, Blues Harp or Special 20 or a Tomco Lee Oskar, I'm surprised...if it was one of the cheapie $5-$10 promo harps, the quality control is a bit suspect and I would blame that (not insulting you or your harp if you bought one of those, but in this case you really do get what you pay for).

If it has a plastic comb, you might try soaking it in rubbing alcohol for an hour or so. It will dissolve anything that is stick in the reeds...but don't play it until all the alcohol is completely evaporated, or you'll get a very unwelcome sensation in your mouth and lungs the first time you play "cross" harp... :shock:

If it has a wood comb, many say you can soak it in water or alcohol, too, but I find it greatly shortens the life of the harp and makes the comb swell, damaging your lips when you play it next...

Some old-time guys would soak their new harps to break them in, and claimed it would make it sound "fatter", but I have not found that to be true at all...however, YMMV.

A Tombo Folk / blues harp SA, plastic comb, not the dearest in the store to be honest, probably just a poor imitation just not possible to get a clear note with the same blow as the rest of the harp, I'll more than likely buy something better, I'll give the alcohol a try in the meantime though..... cheers

Screamin' Armadillo · **Posted:** Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:23 pm

ripitup555 wrote:

Screamin' Armadillo wrote:

ripitup555 wrote:

Complete harp novice here guys, went looking for a harp a while back looked for a C but ended up with a D ( shop run out of C's :roll:

), thing is the note at either end of the harp just isn't as clear as the rest of the harp, just a duller sound and harder to control, is there anyway to cure this.

What type of harp did you buy? If it was a good (~$30-$35+) Hohner Marine band, Blues Harp or Special 20 or a Tomco Lee Oskar, I'm surprised...if it was one of the cheapie $5-$10 promo harps, the quality control is a bit suspect and I would blame that (not insulting you or your harp if you bought one of those, but in this case you really do get what you pay for).

If it has a plastic comb, you might try soaking it in rubbing alcohol for an hour or so. It will dissolve anything that is stick in the reeds...but don't play it until all the alcohol is completely evaporated, or you'll get a very unwelcome sensation in your mouth and lungs the first time you play "cross" harp... :shock:

If it has a wood comb, many say you can soak it in water or alcohol, too, but I find it greatly shortens the life of the harp and makes the comb swell, damaging your lips when you play it next...

Some old-time guys would soak their new harps to break them in, and claimed it would make it sound "fatter", but I have not found that to be true at all...however, YMMV.

A Tombo Folk / blues harp SA, plastic comb, not the dearest in the store to be honest, probably just a poor imitation just not possible to get a clear note with the same blow as the rest of the harp, I'll more than likely buy something better, I'll give the alcohol a try in the meantime though..... cheers

Give that a shot and see if it clears up; otherwise, it might be best to get another.
Let us know if it works...

ripitup555 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:25 pm

Will do SA ....cheers again

Screamin' Armadillo · **Posted:** Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:28 pm

Cheers to you, RipItUp555--

By the way, here's a sample of the SM57 w/Bulletizer attachment, into my '63 re-issue Vibroverb, both with and without the Lone Wolf Blues Company Harp Break pedal...

(Click on picture to play video)

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