Hoping someone can help I'm at the point in lessons where I'm starting to learn modes but it's very confusing. I know the major scale in two octaves also known as the Ionian mode. And found a great article in Guitar Player from 89 by Frank Gamble. But I am still confused as to where to use them and how to use them. I know there is a couple professional player on here, I know all five positions of the pentatonic scales major and minor, can I use modes to blend these together ect. Thank you in advance John

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--- John

I use them like any other scale the modes are variation of major scales the only thing is the arrangement of intervals. Like you said Lonian is major and Aeolian is natural minor. They have different sounds like Phrygian is like a good speed metal or Dorian is great for blues or rock so on

Well the problem is when I try to add the extra notes into say a c blues run it just does not sound right to me. So should I be using Mixolidian or is that too jazzy for rock style blues. A bit of history on me I play weekly in a local church band but first love is classic rock and blues.

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--- John

Mixolydian is great for blues ,country,rockabilly and rock and Dorian

Thanks for the help, I think the main thing is to keep on practicing and actually use the modes in real world applications. Instead of wishing I did lol --- John

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--- John

Howdy!

I'm not much of a player and I'm completely self taught but I too have just started learning about modes. I suspect your probably much further ahead than I am but, here's my Big Hairy take on the subject at hand.

For finding a use for a mode I believe the aim is to have a good sense of how each mode "feels" musically. In essence that's what the modes are, "7 different musical feelings".

You can always cycle through the modes to see what works and what doesn't by doing the following (apologies if you already do this).

Find out what key your playing in. For example purposes let say the song is in E.

Play your major scale shape starting on the "A" string 7th fret whilst droning the low (bass side) "E" string. This is the Ionian mode you already know.

Now, staying on the "A" string move the scale shape down two frets and play the same scale shape whilst droning the "E" string. This puts the root note (E) on the second note of the scale and gives you the Dorian mode.

Move the scale shape so the root note is on the 3rd note of the scale and you have Phrygian. Carry on changing the root note whilst maintaining the scale shape to get the rest.

4th note = Lydian
5th note = Mixolydian
6th note = Aeolian (minor scale)
7th note = Locrian (the scary mode!)

Hope this helps.

Andy

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Pending Greatness

You know I've never looked at it that way Andy, So I can use the modes as extensions on a particular scale or key. I think that is what your saying ---- John

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--- John

Yeah... I think so...

The method described in my post above is a good way to hear all the different modes and how they "feel" musically. Droning the "E" lets you hear the intervals which make up the different modes (i use my looper to drone different root notes). How you then apply them outside of the major (Ionian) scale shape is the hard bit. At least for me that's the hard bit!

Still, once you can identify the model flavour of a song or composition I reckon you should be able to use the major scale shape and the relevant root position as a starting point to build your solo.

Have a go and see what you think. I'll give you 50 points if you can find a tune that works with a Locrian based solo!

Enjoy!

Andy

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Pending Greatness

Here's the way I remember it:

I (Ionian) Don't (Dorian) Particularly (Phrygian) Like (Lydian) Modes (Myxolydian) A (Aeolian) Lot (Locrian)

And a really cool way to visualize modes is that really its just like taking your typical major (Ionian) key and focusing on another note in the scale...

For example, lets say you take C major, and make the E in the scale your main focus (making it the "new" tonic). That's actually playing in E Phrygian.

C Major: C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C
E Phrygian: E-F-G-A-B-C-D-E
See? the same notes

Here's another example:
Bb major: Bb-C-D-Eb-F-G-A-Bb
Eb Lydian: Eb-F-G-A-Bb-C-D-Eb


Its cool stuff how modes still revolve around a same pattern of notes....

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Kid: "Hey Smokey! Where did you get your name?"
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(former user jimbo612)

Wow thanks again! putting it in simple language is best for an old guy like myself. My teacher is great but this really helps alot

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--- John

Its kinda funny I actually learned modes when I use to play in my high school symphony...

I use to be that kid who would try to play harmony over everyone else... I was way to easy going and would talk way to much also... My teacher didn't like me much...

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Kid: "Hey Smokey! Where did you get your name?"
Smokey the Bear: "Well..."
(former user jimbo612)

I've always had love for music and guitars but never took lessons, so 3 years ago started taking lessons and can actually play in public now. I just wish I started sooner.

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--- John

52henryj, there is a member on this very Forum username: Goranm, or something close to that. A music theory professor that has posted many threads about modes and scales and theory in general. Amazing information and very helpful. He must be busy as I haven't seen many posts lately from him. I hope I got the name right.If any of the Bros here remember hopefully they can correct if I've spelled it wrong. Search his posts and you will get some info that you can use.

Ok here is a link to one of the Bros threads, have fun:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34223

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you can save the world with your guitar one love song at a time it's just better, more fun, easier with a fender solid body electric guitar or electric bass guitar.

John, you asked about using such scales in combination with one another. Allow me to explain my point of view, beginning with some fundamentals (I am going somewhere with this):

The three major modes are Ionian (1st), Lydian (4th), and Myxolydian (5th).
So, in the key of C one might be expected to play C Ionian over a C Major chord, F Lydian over F major, and G Myxolydian over G major (or G dominant if you are adding the b7).

The three minor modes are Dorian (2nd), Phrygian (3rd), and Aeolian (6th).
So, in the key of C one might be expected to play D Dorian over a D minor chord, E Phrygian over an E minor chord, and A Aeolian over an A minor chord.

ALLOW ME TO BLOW YOUR MIND FOR A MOMENT:
The Minor Pentatonic Scale (penta meaning 'five') contains the following intervals: 1-b3-4-5-b7
What you'll notice is that each of these intervals are included in the minor modes, with the addition of two notes:
Dorian: 1-2-b3-4-5-6-b7
Phrygian: 1-b2-b3-4-5-b6-b7
Aeolian: 1-2-b3-4-5-b6-b7

What this means is that when you are playing any of Dorian, Phrygian, or Aeolian.. you are playing the minor pentatonic scale with the addition of two notes to establish a new tonality. YOU CAN PLAY THE MINOR PENTATONIC SCALE IN ANY OF DORIAN, PHRYGIAN, or AEOLIAN, should you choose to isolate these notes! Feel free to add some extra notes of the modes to your pentatonic licks to add some new, tasty flavour.

You also asked about the Blues scale. I assume you are meaning the minor pentatonic scale with the addition of a b5... the b5 is more for the sake of adding chromaticisms (consecutive half steps). These are popular in many forms of music, especially jazz but especially blues. Consider it another spice to you can go to.

There, my best goranm impression.

Now that is amazing!!! I've said it before and will say it again the knowledge and talent on here is out of this world! Thanks again for helping a novice like myself. ---- John

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--- John