Hi BMW-KTM: well, it was quite long, but shorter than some of the posts that have already appeared on this thread. Even so, I tried breaking it down into sections - and even that didn't work. Bizarro!

...By the way, I do exactly the same thing when glitches occur: take it as the universe's way of telling me to take a moment to reconsider!

This post contains nothing unfriendly towards Sarah Palin. Will this one get past?

Cheers - C

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Just think of how awesome a guitar player you could have been by now if you had only spent the last 10 years practicing instead of obsessing over pickups and roasted maple necks.

Hmm, well that worked. Are we discovering something hiding deep within the phpBB software? Mustn't get paranoid...

SA, if you haven't passed out with boredom yet, the gist of what I wanted to say was that we get quite upset (flippin' enraged!) over here at some of the things we hear said about our system by your media and especially certain of your politicians. Those remarks get quoted with lip-smacking anger, and then examples of appalling disfunction, misery and death in your system are dug up and triumphantly proclaimed in return.

Truth is, all systems have their successes and failures. Also, very few people have experience of any system other than their own, so when people compare theirs with those of other countries they nearly always make fools of themselves.

Since you ask I'd like to tell you how our system works... but let's see if the software will permit me to submit this first bit. After all, I didn't say anything nasty about Sarah Palin (yet)...

Cheers - C

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Spoke to a few nurses in the NHS, no jobs when they eventually qualify, retiring nurses not being replaced, more management than actual medical personnel on grossly overated salaries and pensions, some employers asking their staff to go private but still pay national insurance aswell as a tidy sum for the company healthcare " get you back to work quicker" creating a two teir system to my eyes, to me healthcare shouldn't require that you have a bigger bank balance than the next guy or that a hospital in a wealthy area gets better equipment than a poorer area, yet in saying all this I've never had what you would call a bad experience myself or with my parents when treatment was req'd other than the food is crap, like Ceri say's good and bad, just seems on a downward $@!&# at present which is probably more to do with management than the actual nursing side

S.L.O.P.E why is that a naughty word

...Hmm. Working so far.

OK. So, how our system works.

As Adey said, the overarching principle is that healthcare should be free at the point of use. You should be able to get whatever treatment you need regardless of ability to pay and without having to worry about rationing by insurance companies. In practice that means it happens like this.

Other than emergencies, the "gate-keepers" in the NHS are our GPs - general practitioners. Family physicians, do you call them? Whatever your issue you go first to your GP and if it isn't something they can treat directly you discuss with them which specialist you'd like to be refered to and where. Your right is to go to any one at any hospital in the country and if the appointment can't be made reasonably swiftly then the NHS will also pay for you to go anywhere of your choice within the European Union. Though in practice that is seldom necessary - more often they come here under reciprocal agreements.

I've seen in the US media scare stories of "rationing" and "waiting lists" with the NHS: as a life-long user they bear little relation to reality.

Examples to follow.

Cheers - C

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...Onward.

Example of how small stuff works. A couple of years ago I became tired of a completely meaningless small cyst on my back. I went to my GP on a Friday and was referred to an appropriate surgeon to have it removed the following Tuesday. As it happened the department at my local hospital had a waiting list of several weeks so instead I was sent to a private unit at another hospital across town. Total cost to me: a bus ticket and a truly horrible cup of coffee from a machine in the waiting room.

Example of how bigger stuff works. One day my dad realised something was suddenly going very wrong in one eye. He rang his GP and was told not to waste time going to her but to go direct to the ophthalmology department at our nearby large hospital - which happens to be a world leading research unit. That day he was diagnosed with wet AMD: the next day he began receiving injections straight into the eyeball of Lucentis. Lucentis was a few weeks out of phase III trials at the time and only about three centres in the world were offering it. It completely restored his vision and that is maintained by follow-up injections most months. Lucentis costs $1950 per injection in the US; here the cost to us was more of those lousy cups of coffee from the machine.

Sarah Palin and anyone else can be as rude as they like about NHS coffee. She still has no idea what she's talking about but on coffee I won't be arguing. The cost of my dad's treatment so far would buy a small house - and that's just his eye. He has had SO MUCH work done on his heart it would take a Forum page to describe it. For none of that do we ever have to think about cost, insurance policy small print, availability - nuttin. Very comforting.

Cheers - C

Cheers - C

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Same with my mum. She passed away from cancer last spring but went through four years of expensive treatments and procedures and had a nurse come to her home every day for the last two of those years. No cost to her at the point of use. Just her taxes at work.

I was going to write a song for her when she died but for some reason I got stopped with a blockage at the end of the first verse and every once in a while I take another stab at it but still get nothing. One day the time will be right and I'll finish it.

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Just think of how awesome a guitar player you could have been by now if you had only spent the last 10 years practicing instead of obsessing over pickups and roasted maple necks.

RipItUp--that word is not allowed because it can be used as a racial slur (I was not aware of that until it kicked that word out of a post I was trying to display...

Ceri--This is the type of info I wished to hear. End-user anecdotes and real-life situations...I have worked in the healthcare field for over 16 years, and while I agree we need reform in the US, I shudder to think how any further government involvement (no matter what political persuasion may be holding power) will do to an already broken system.

In the mid 1990s I was working for a Home Dialysis Treatment company (we went into the homes of homebound hemodialysis patients in order to prevent painful--and costly--transportation to a clinic. Unfortunately, there were some Medicaid reform laws passed and (long story short) many of these patients were forced to travel three times a week to a clinic in order to receive treatment.

Some of the patients were ambulatory and this was not a hardship; however, most of them were truly homebound or it was extremely difficult to move them.

One former postal worker (military vet, father, grandfather) had been struck with crippling rheumatoid arthritis and could no longer walk. He was a big guy when he was active and exercising (about 6' 5" and at least 260 lbs), and unfortunately he got larger ( after he could no longer move around. The new Medicare rules required him to travel--by ambulance--three times a week to the clinic at a cost of $375 each way ($750 per treatment), to save the $75 extra it cost to send the nurse to his home. That really saved the national economy, didn't it?

Anyway, the various critics/pundits/politicians (on both sides of the aisle) who resort to scare tactics instead of concentrating on actually helping patients and saving money where possible are a lost cause. The current US healthcare reform bill isn't the answer, either. There's too much room for corruption, graft and abuse.

From what you and others have stated, your system has it's flaws and strengths, too, but is that perhaps because y'all have had enough time to work out the kinks?

Please share more info...I'm still curious...

...and we have more general practitioners than family doctors nowadays, too. The simple old family doc is almost extinct due to malpractice expenses.

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Good Vibes To Y'all!



Screamin' Armadillos
Texas Roadhouse Music
Guitar/Slide Guitar/Harp/Vocals

that's for sure! my brother in law had to go the the emergency room in the next county because the county he lived in had no county hospital. he got stuck with over 5k in bills for some guy to walk in and tell him he had stomach ulcers and needed to relax. no idea how that bill is supposed to help him relax he is just a cart guy at wal mart to

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In the immortal words of Aurther Fonzarello, "Exact-a-mundo."

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Just think of how awesome a guitar player you could have been by now if you had only spent the last 10 years practicing instead of obsessing over pickups and roasted maple necks.

I'll also weigh in on prescription charges here at least in England.

Anyone over 60, under 16, 18 or under in full time education or a hospital in-patient doesn't have to pay for their prescriptions.

Otherwise it is £7.40 per line on a prescription, however you can put multiples of the same item on one line. For example when I pick up my athsma inhaler prescription of 3 brown inhalers and 2 blue inhalers it costs £14.80 rather than paying £7.40 five times. Then there is also the option to pay £104 and that covers as many prescriptions as you want for 12 months, which to me seems very reasonable.

The NHS has treated me extremely well over the years, considering I've always skateboarded and snowboarded I have extensive experience with various trauma departments The longest I've waited from going in to having my limb in plaster ready to leave is 12 hours. However during that time there was a massive road accident which is obviously more important than my little broken arm! In my view there are days when the hospital is slammed and you have to accept that other peoples problems are higher priority. When I went in with an irregular heartbeat and chest pains I had blood tests, ECG and full chest x-rays done within half an hour so you can't really complain I guess.

Plus after blowing my knee out I had multiple MRI's done and 12 weeks of physio at a private practise all for free, seems like a solid deal to me.

I think were on the edge of turning this thread into a long drawn out discussion/argument about health care. I,m just now going through my indoctrination into the Good Old American Medicare System. With a supplemental prescription drug policy from a private insurance company. I'm not finished with my enrollment and already I have encountered several Redundancies. In short the entire proses is a terrible CLUSTER #$@!. Just thought I'd through this in as food for thought.
----Danny,

I, too, have recently enrolled in medicare after disability. Every process I have encountered has worked seamlessly. Social security, medicare, supplement. It has been a great blessing to have access to these instead of abject poverty.

An interesting and informative thread. I have relatives in Saint John and they seem to have a love hate relationship with the Canadian Health Care System. They say the same things about traveling a bit depending on their ailments. I sometimes get rashes due to contact dermatitis. Sometimes I need a prescription called Topicort. Here in the States it runs roughly $145 for the Generic version. I get the name brand from a Pharmacy in Canada for $60 shipped. If you need really expensive prescriptions filled, check it out.

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Life...... It's sexually transmitted and always fatal

Nobody looses their house here or goes bankrupt if they become seriously ill.
A good health insurance plan isn't a big consideration in taking or staying at a job.

I recall reading the most significant factor in personal bankruptcies in the US is due to serious medical conditions.

So we don't have a cadillac system, overall its not as expensive as the US as a % of GDP but gets the job done.

Nurses get paid very well, senior administrators get paid way too much, and doctors too little. So there's a problem attacking and keeping doctors but there are plenty of administrators.