I found out from my teacher, and thought you may be interested adey, that Trinity's attitude towards guitars used has changed, and now the rules allow guitars with cutaways to be used in exams.

_________________
"reach for the sky and aim for the moon, for if you miss you will end up among the stars"

Zoom MS50G
72 tele dlx RI
2011 standard strat
Blackstar HT-5R
Taylor Big Baby

http://www.youtube.com/user/Almungo/videos?flow=grid&view=0

Cool teledeluxe..

I'm glad they've moved with the times. Obviously they remain more focussed on the players skill and overall musicality than what he/she is playing.

But I'm sure turning up for a classical grading exam with a Gibson ES335 would probably bring an early end to proceedings.. " 'scuse me mate, where do I plug me amp in?"

_________________
Fender Highway & Classic 60s Strats, Fender Toronado, Telecaster, Gretsch Projet, Charvel 3, PRS SE Soapbar II & Custom 24, Burns Batwing and many others!

Ha yeah...

I think with electric guitars, it can be easier to play some of the bars and stuff, because of the strings and the neck. That's something I don't really get with the high action usually used for classical-whats the point? I know it can give better tone, but if it was lower and easier to play, surely the player would be able to inject more soul and tone into the piece. It seems that old traditions, that may have only been started for practicality of making the instruments in the first place a long time ago, gain too much respect. Some of the classical players from the past would probably jump at the opportunity to have a cutaway and really low action!

_________________
"reach for the sky and aim for the moon, for if you miss you will end up among the stars"

Zoom MS50G
72 tele dlx RI
2011 standard strat
Blackstar HT-5R
Taylor Big Baby

http://www.youtube.com/user/Almungo/videos?flow=grid&view=0

It's a misconception that professional quality Classical Guitars, ( not nylon stringed hybrids that are designed to appeal to electric guitar players.) have high action. They have relatively low action comparable to a Semi Hollow Archtop.
Not however like your Strat or Tele. The action on a Classical has to be functional.
When playing a Classical your fingering hand does not rest on the top, it is free-floating, it is not anchored other than your forearm being in contact with the upperbout edge.
To play truly in a Classical method your hands ( left and right ) must be able to move as the note dictates the correct attack. BTW that is all your fingers come into play, the actual striking of the string in Classical is very different than fingerpicking on a steel string. You do not pick the string as you would with a pick or finger (nail) but rather push down and release the string...
Just the Pedagogy of Classical and it's study takes years, but once there is improvement it is quite rewarding....It definitely is not instantaneous..Like walking into GC plugging in an electric of whatever guitar of your choice into an amp and devices and Voila....
You are playing a guitar... Making noise is actually the result...

Bar chords are used as much as in any other form of music with Classical.....
As far as Soul and Tone coming from a low action guitar...you might want to take a look at what the old Bluesmen and Jazz Cats used to play on...Certainly not your low action shred whatever pattern replicating guitars that are used today...
Yeah.... I'm cynical, but I have studied Classical with a teacher, plan to return to it in the near future. It was definitely not easy, speaking of showing up with anything but a Classical.
I had a Larrivee 05 which was a small classical sized bodied steel string with a Florentine cutaway. I brought it in to a lesson, he played it, said it was very nice but " Did you bring your Classical.. Some Classical do have cutaway's, some of the new designs by Luthiers have this feature, but I have to add that if you were to pick up a $3,000 to $7,000 Classical, You would be impressed as to how easy it is to play and how excellent the tone is.

As far as Soul and Tone, I would suggest listening to Julian Bream's playing. Rodrigo's Concierto De Aranjuez, Vivaldi's Concerto in D, Albeniz or Tarrega. All those can be heardon his DBL CD " Ultimate Guitar Collection "..
If you want more contemporary there is Anna Vidovic's Bach Lute suite's.
Or for something a bit different, Oscar Lopez, who is more in the Flamenco style than Classical....

There is this mindset from all ends of the muscal spectrum that my particular style of music is the only viable medium, the others are just.....
Too bad, there is such great music from so many Genre's..

_________________
"C'est parti mon Kiki "

I don't own a semi hollow archtop, and have never played one, so I can't really compare. But my classical just seems less willing to play, than my tele or my strat. This is annoying, although I am sure it improves my technique on electric guitars a lot.

There are often much longer stretches, with bars at the same time, used in classical, compared to electric. Not all electric guitar music though, I know. It would be much easier to do these, and more possibilities for that sort of thing would open up, if classicals had lower action. I just think, it would be easier, and more things could be done, if there was lower action.

I have seen some classical guitars with cutaways, like this one: http://www.classical-guitars-plus.co.uk ... cal+Guitar

I know it is not a traditional classical, but it is definitely classical, not a contemporary nylon strung guitar. I think having one of these would open up a lot more possibilities when composing/whatever jamming is called in classical

_________________
"reach for the sky and aim for the moon, for if you miss you will end up among the stars"

Zoom MS50G
72 tele dlx RI
2011 standard strat
Blackstar HT-5R
Taylor Big Baby

http://www.youtube.com/user/Almungo/videos?flow=grid&view=0

This was my Classical, not traditional but still a classical, sold it last fall ( was probably a mistake when thinking over it today ).
This was very good quality for the price, I bought it preowned, the fretboard had a crack running from the Soundhole to the 9th fret, i oiled the fretboard stuck it in its case with a humidifier and let it sit for a couple of weeks periodically checking that the humidifier was full of water, it dried out rapidly at first then became longer intervals.
The top was Cedar, not conventional since most classicals are spruce tops, but Cedar gives a bit of a warmer tone , more mids less highs.
All in all I paid $150.00 for that guitar because of the fingerboard issue which was only a case of not having the correct humidity.

The other pic is of the Larrivee ( 1994 ) again probably a mistake to let it go since I have not seen another like it....But traded it in for the CS 56 NOS...
You can see that it is very similar to a classical....Jean Larrivee actually started building Classical guitars before steel string acoustics...

_________________
"C'est parti mon Kiki "

They are very nice guitars. I hear so often on this forum about people who sold a guitar and now, a year later(or 6 months or whatever) they are regretting it...It's put me off selling a guitar ever!

Didn't that crack affect playability/sound?

_________________
"reach for the sky and aim for the moon, for if you miss you will end up among the stars"

Zoom MS50G
72 tele dlx RI
2011 standard strat
Blackstar HT-5R
Taylor Big Baby

http://www.youtube.com/user/Almungo/videos?flow=grid&view=0

Nahh...That's just life, I may sell the other Larrivee, or I may sell the CS 56 NOS at some point in the future,I don't know, it is something that is personal, but you cannot let it overwhelm the rest of your life.
They are after all only guitars....

_________________
"C'est parti mon Kiki "

The Rodrigo - Concerto de Aranjuez and the Vivaldi in D are sublime guitar and orchestral works. Like most people who know them, I particularly adore the 2nd movements of both. What a bore it is that so many in the Classical world still consider the guitar to be something of a 2nd rate parlour instrument, unworthy of sustained and detailed study. This is of course reflected in the comparatively limited repetoire the guitar actually has in comparison to other orchestral instruments..

With regards to your complaint of high action teledeluxe (you've referred to it on several occasions), I think you're worrying unnecessarily. As I said before £350+ classicals are well sorted. And that price barrier is going down. I always play a store's collection of nylon strung guitars in all price ranges over £99.00, and it's been many years since I played one with an unacceptably high action. Maybe you were just unlucky with your particular guitar. Maybe you can adjust it - slide out the old bridge saddle and replace it with a new blank saddle (Bone is ideal). Use a fine piece of wet and dry paper to file the saddle to fit (use the existing saddle as a template). Very carefully, reduce the height of it, and keep trying it in the guitar till it's right. Just a slight reduction in saddle height can bring down the action noticeably. But easy does it - go too far and obviously the strings are fouled by the frets. I don't anticipate that a minor adjustment will compromise the tone of your instrument. If it all goes wrong, just start again, and you'll still have the original saddle to re-fit if nec.

Enjoying your posts guys..

_________________
Fender Highway & Classic 60s Strats, Fender Toronado, Telecaster, Gretsch Projet, Charvel 3, PRS SE Soapbar II & Custom 24, Burns Batwing and many others!

I don't really mean to complain about high action on the whole, just my particular guitar It's more I just don't understand why they don't make it lower-classical is generally higher action than electric-but I don't see why it should be.

I may try and change the action on mine-however if I were to get a new classical I would sell mine, so I don't want to damage it's value too much. So I may just be patient and wait for when I replace my guitar. Thanks for the suggestion though.

I think I will go here:http://www.londonguitarstudio.com/ some point around christmas to have a look. They have a lot of instruments there-many alhambras, several esteves and lots of other makes. It will be good to try out something apart from my guitar, see what I like. You never really know until you try do you.

_________________
"reach for the sky and aim for the moon, for if you miss you will end up among the stars"

Zoom MS50G
72 tele dlx RI
2011 standard strat
Blackstar HT-5R
Taylor Big Baby

http://www.youtube.com/user/Almungo/videos?flow=grid&view=0

The higher action is because unlike a Strat or Tele or a quality Electric Guitar, we can get away with a little string buzz, which does not show up thru the electromagnetic method of amplifying the string...
Not so on an acoustic Classical, since the vibrating string generates vibrations on the top and back which in turn moves air particles which gives you that audible string sound thru the sound hole. Any string touching another fret other than the one for sounding a particular note, that interference will resonate into your sound..In addition the Classical Technique necessitates a guitar that is designed for unobstructed movement of the picking hand and fingers....

_________________
"C'est parti mon Kiki "

That makes a lot of sense, thanks. I understand that now. I will still go for a lower action classical when I upgrade, but now I understand the merits of higher action I can make a better decision. Thanks for that.

_________________
"reach for the sky and aim for the moon, for if you miss you will end up among the stars"

Zoom MS50G
72 tele dlx RI
2011 standard strat
Blackstar HT-5R
Taylor Big Baby

http://www.youtube.com/user/Almungo/videos?flow=grid&view=0

Got a surprise recently looking through a guitar reviews magazine.

It seems that the Manuel Rodriguez Company may well be the first luthiers to sell a relic'd classical guitar.. Based on their standard Model A, but with a hefty surcharge on the price for the extra work.

I don't know whether to applaud such unexpected 'innovation', or to deride it. Certainly looks like the relicing concept isn't going to go away anytime soon, but I'm suprised to see it in such purist, traditional luthiery..

http://www.jhs.co.uk/New%20Products/rod ... eaged.html

_________________
Fender Highway & Classic 60s Strats, Fender Toronado, Telecaster, Gretsch Projet, Charvel 3, PRS SE Soapbar II & Custom 24, Burns Batwing and many others!

Wow. I'm in two minds about that... It's really silly, but at the same time quite innovative. Mind you, innovations aren't always good. I thought the whole relic'ing thing came from the really cool first electric guitars that were made long enough ago now that they are still in one piece (sometimes) but often heavily worn/relic'd. The first classical guitars were probably made so long ago now that they are soil or something by now. And also, the classical guitar went on a long evolution from other instruments like the lute I think, to where it is now. There isn't really a defined "first". But with electric guitars, we know the first were probably around the early '20s I think-the first to be amplifieble. And then I think there were the first solid body electric guitars are bit later. I'm not entirely confident about my guitar history though...

This seems very strange.

_________________
"reach for the sky and aim for the moon, for if you miss you will end up among the stars"

Zoom MS50G
72 tele dlx RI
2011 standard strat
Blackstar HT-5R
Taylor Big Baby

http://www.youtube.com/user/Almungo/videos?flow=grid&view=0

I took a trip to the Classical Guitar Centre in my home town today (a link to the their site is available elsewhere on this thread). Thought it was about time to purchase that all solid wood classical guitar I've been promising myself for years. especially as the price of solid - rather than laminated - woods is set to rise sharply given new timber supply rules/licensing.

I've settled on one of two, both Raimundo guitars built in Spain:

The model 136 has a cedar top, ebony fingerboard and solid mahogany back and sides. The mahogany is more cost effective than rosewood, but the guitar has exactly the depth and mellow woodiness of tone I was hoping for.

The model 138 has a cedar top, ebony fingerboard and the back and sides are solid walnut. This makes for an unusual sound that is very appealing - bit more zingy and brighter, but still with great depth of tone. £130.00 more expensive.

Going to go back tomorrow and compare them both with my Manuel Rodriguez as a my initial reference point..

I'll let you know which one I go for. Have to stay within my budget, but I also looked at a Concert guitar costing £15,000.00. I was too afraid to try it! 15 times my budget!

_________________
Fender Highway & Classic 60s Strats, Fender Toronado, Telecaster, Gretsch Projet, Charvel 3, PRS SE Soapbar II & Custom 24, Burns Batwing and many others!