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Its Not Really a Fender Unless it was Made in the USA
Poll ended at Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:19 am
TRUE 18%  18%  [ 9 ]
FALSE 82%  82%  [ 40 ]
Total votes : 49
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Post subject: Re: Is a Fender Really a Fender if it wasn't made in the USA
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:52 am
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If japanese fender guitars are not real fender guitars... then I guess I don't ever want a "real" fender...

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Post subject: Re: Is a Fender Really a Fender if it wasn't made in the USA
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:14 am
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I'm sorry Stratofiedmind, I'm not being ignorant and you really should reconsider posting before using tones like that.

As for Fender, they really are small potatoes when it comes to the world of instrument manufacture. Behringer are way bigger. They not only own the factory they built in mainland China, but the township they built that goes alongside it. The same with Wilkinson's various Chinese ventures. Completely owned and run by western corporations.

If there is ignorance at play here, I say it's on the part of those touting the term.

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Post subject: Re: Is a Fender Really a Fender if it wasn't made in the USA
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:11 pm
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nikininja wrote:
I'm sorry Stratofiedmind, I'm not being ignorant and you really should reconsider posting before using tones like that.

As for Fender, they really are small potatoes when it comes to the world of instrument manufacture. are way bigger. They not only own the factory they built in mainland China, but the township they built that goes alongside it. The same with Wilkinson's various Chinese ventures. Completely owned and run by western corporations.

If there is ignorance at play here, I say it's on the part of those touting the term.


thats why I used the word MOST :wink: anyways Behringer is a multinational conglomerate of several company's. that is a whole different scenario.

but I will also Agree to Agree to Disagree :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Is a Fender Really a Fender if it wasn't made in the USA
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:39 pm
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No its a German company owned by Music Group of which Uli Berhinger is chair. A business owner with very good set of practices regarding his employees well being.

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Post subject: Re: Is a Fender Really a Fender if it wasn't made in the USA
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:50 pm
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nikininja wrote:
No its a German company owned by Music Group of which Uli Berhinger is chair. A business owner with very good set of practices regarding his employees well being.




from wikipedia

"Behringer is a multi-national group of companies, with direct marketing presence in 10 countries or territories"

how is that not a multinational conglomerate ?

edit:

Beheringer is a multi national corporation

A multi national corporation (MNC) or enterprise (MNE),[1] is a corporation or an enterprise that manages production or delivers services in more than one country

Music group is a conglomerate

A conglomerate is a combination of two or more corporations engaged in entirely different businesses that fall under one corporate structure

also "Music Group is a holding company based in Manila, Philippines.[2] It is chaired by Uli Behringer, founder of Behringer". not a German company anymore but a German is chairman. so it is now an eastern operated and owned company.

since Beheringer is part of music group, the whole organization is a multinational conglomerate. still a whole different animal than what i am talking about. also this is not an american based company so it does not fall under what i said about American company's contracting foreign factory's to make their product.

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Post subject: Re: Is a Fender Really a Fender if it wasn't made in the USA
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:02 pm
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You'd argue that Uli Behringer doesn't own the controlling share of Music Group?

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Post subject: Re: Is a Fender Really a Fender if it wasn't made in the USA
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:32 pm
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nikininja wrote:
You'd argue that Uli Behringer doesn't own the controlling share of Music Group?

:roll: I never said anything about what he does or doesn't own.
I have no knowledge of the exact Music Group corporate structure. but I am certain he controls a large percent of the parent company "Music Group" since he is the chairman and all. that includes Behringer because it is now owned and controlled by Music Group a Philippine based company. music group and Behringer are no longer based in Germany so it is no longer a German company. the controlling members nationality does not determine that. Behringer products aren't even made in Germany now so what does it matter?

and as I stated before Behringer does not apply to what I was talking about anyways.

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Post subject: Re: Is a Fender Really a Fender if it wasn't made in the USA
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:53 pm
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somebizarredude wrote:
nikininja wrote:
You'd argue that Uli Behringer doesn't own the controlling share of Music Group?

:roll: I never said anything about what he does or doesn't own.
I have no knowledge of the exact Music Group corporate structure. but I am certain he controls a large percent of the parent company "Music Group" since he is the chairman and all. that includes Behringer because it is now owned and controlled by Music Group a Philippine based company. music group and Behringer are no longer based in Germany so it is no longer a German company. the controlling members nationality does not determine that. Behringer products aren't even made in Germany now so what does it matter?

and as I stated before Behringer does not apply to what I was talking about anyways.


Let's not forget that Gibson owns it's Factory in Qingdao China and does have some Gibson employees that are American working in the place!

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Post subject: Re: Is a Fender Really a Fender if it wasn't made in the USA
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:15 pm
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cvilleira wrote:

Let's not forget that Gibson owns it's Factory in Qingdao China and does have some Gibson employees that are American working in the place!


maybe. but they make Epiphone guitars not gibson. epiphone is a subsidiary of gibson

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Post subject: Re: Is a Fender Really a Fender if it wasn't made in the USA
Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:40 am
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So in effect, we must have such good company exec's that they can actually talk the working Joe into going and joining the oppressed masses in a communist country and work for a bowl of rice a day. :D

Why aren't those people in government?

What ever any company makes overseas, it doesn't matter. Epiphone pre-dates Gibson by 20 odd years though. The point is that we live in a borderless world. The kind of closed boundary countries allured to in this thread are very few and far between these days.

As for oppression of the masses how does this grab you.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/photo-of-84-year-old-woman-hit-by-pepper-spray-at-occupy-seattle-protest-goes-viral/2011/11/16/gIQAAK7lRN_story.html?tid=pm_national_pop

All I asked anyone to do was open their eyes.

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Post subject: Re: Is a Fender Really a Fender if it wasn't made in the USA
Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:59 am
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SSP..Priced @ $110, regardless of where it was made I would not expect much in terms of quality.
But that brings back to the fore the driving motive behind the amount of chinese made products.....CHEAP.....Consumers demand low priced goods, a quick nauseating walk thru any WallMart will clearly illustrate that fact.
Sadly the mindset is that buying that item for $200.00 versus $600.00 is a bargain, regardless of the reality that the lower priced item will have a lifespan a 1/4 or a 1/3rd less of the better item,
The expense of having to replace the lower priced item as well as time and travel lost never enters the equation.....

A sort of comic relief for me was @ Home Depot, I was talking with someone whom I thought was a homeowner but was actually a Contractor picking out a new Ryobi saws-all all the while complaining how they didn't last and he had to buy a new one almost every week..... :lol: :lol:
Fact is those inexpensive tools are designed for the homeowner who does an occasional repair, not for commercial applications....

The same goes for guitars, if you want an instrument that will be Pro quality, there is a certain price point for that level, there is no way around it....

However a look into the company Eastman might be worth it for those who believe that everything from China is substandard. Not So...Fretboard Journal did a review in its Winter 2009 issue # 16....

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Post subject: Re: Is a Fender Really a Fender if it wasn't made in the USA
Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:24 am
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nikininja wrote:
CV
So in effect, we must have such good company exec's that they can actually talk the working Joe into going and joining the oppressed masses in a communist country and work for a bowl of rice a day. :D

Why aren't those people in government?

What ever any company makes overseas, it doesn't matter. Epiphone pre-dates Gibson by 20 odd years though. The point is that we live in a borderless world. The kind of closed boundary countries allured to in this thread are very few and far between these days.

As for oppression of the masses how does this grab you.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/photo-of-84-year-old-woman-hit-by-pepper-spray-at-occupy-seattle-protest-goes-viral/2011/11/16/gIQAAK7lRN_story.html?tid=pm_national_pop

All I asked anyone to do was open their eyes.

Hi Nik!
This has been a strange post any hoot!

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Post subject: Re: Is a Fender Really a Fender if it wasn't made in the USA
Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:20 am
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Skirt So Plain wrote:
In other words, they seem to be solidly built and even sound decent, when you first get them, but they wear out quickly. Must be the cheap parts. The Chinese-made guitars obviously start out put together well. (at least the ones I've held in my hands).

I don't understand when you say your cheap guitars "wear out quickly." How in the world does a guitar wear out? I've got lots of guitars, going back to the late 60s and early 70s (and right up to the Chinese made Tele Plus I just bought) and not a single one has ever worn out.

I think if you take good care of a total piece of junk, it should still last forever. But maybe you're using your guitars to dig holes in the ground? I mean, cheap is cheap, but if you're only paying $110 for a guitar, you're still getting what you pay for. :?

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Post subject: Re: Is a Fender Really a Fender if it wasn't made in the USA
Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:18 pm
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Skirt So Plain wrote:
Or the new Fender modern player series. I want to know if I should get one of those. 8)

Here are my thoughts on the new Modern Player Series Tele Plus:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=63614

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Post subject: Re: Is a Fender Really a Fender if it wasn't made in the USA
Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:44 pm
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Skirt So Plain wrote:
CRGuitarMan wrote:
Skirt So Plain wrote:
In other words, they seem to be solidly built and even sound decent, when you first get them, but they wear out quickly. Must be the cheap parts. The Chinese-made guitars obviously start out put together well. (at least the ones I've held in my hands).

I don't understand when you say your cheap guitars "wear out quickly." How in the world does a guitar wear out? I've got lots of guitars, going back to the late 60s and early 70s (and right up to the Chinese made Tele Plus I just bought) and not a single one has ever worn out.

I think if you take good care of a total piece of junk, it should still last forever. But maybe you're using your guitars to dig holes in the ground? I mean, cheap is cheap, but if you're only paying $110 for a guitar, you're still getting what you pay for. :?


Right, yeah, well first, I have since moved on to real Fenders (2 mustangs and an American strat). I paid $155 for my first ever guitar (I see that some places sell them for $115 now I think) and rewarded myself with an upgrade after sticking with it for a year (well, really 9 months).

Second, by "wear out" I mean that even though the thing never left my house, all of a sudden the tuners are literally loose (they have play, like a bus steering wheel). They simply cannot stand up to the force of the strings, apparently. Same thing with my girlfriend's guitar, which she literally never touched.

Third, I would agree that my comment was stupid and pointless because, yeah, $110 guitars are BENEATH cheap and are not what this discussion is about. What’s relevant is whether, say, a $399 Chinese-built Epiphone or a $600 Reverend (now made in Korea) lasts or can be used as a working musician’s gigging guitar.

Or the new Fender modern player series. I want to know if I should get one of those. 8)


The picture below is showing two of my guitars. The one is a $800.00 Epiphone Custom Plus that was made in a small factory in Saein Korea bought 7 years ago, these were hunted for from this manufacture then. That is a Flame Maple caped mahogany body not veneer, also something only done for two years on the Custom Plus from Saein, it has a Maple set neck and rosewood board instead of the Mahogany and rosewood board.
A high quality guitar indeed, and yes that is also a 1300.00 Telecaster next to it!

You can get some high grade guits that are not U.S. made!

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