because we buy almost EVERYTHING from them. they are the new manufacturing superpower. that's why they are such a strong economic powerhouse at the moment. they provide most of the goods to the rest of the world. with all that money coming in its no surprise. whenever a country is a leader in industry and you add in cheap labor their economy soars . but now with china's burst in building military forces it's not going to get any better. especially with the increase in threats over the Spratly and Paracel Islands.

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While it's well known that the Chinese are doing quite well, there are those that are still oppressed and forced to live for poor wages and in sub-standard conditions.

Exactly what those conditions are, good or bad, is pretty much anyone's guess, unless you've seen it first hand.

My daughter went to a college that has students from all over the world. For the past three years we've had a gang of them down for Thanksgiving. Once they come, they always return for the next year.

Anyway, there are people from China, Africa, India, South Korea and some places I can't spell. Point is, they have gotten a real eye opening experience living in America.

Guess what, I've had my eyes opened too. While their governments and, or country keep the propaganda mill running,so does ours. This whole world is slightly tilted, and not really in a good way.

As far as Behringer, I have a Eurorack UB802, it's a great little mixer.

So why are so many western manufacturers from capitalist countries building there, Fender included?

Open your eyes fella's.

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No no and no

open my eyes? I tell you what, go visit a Chinese factory and you tell me what you think?
fender is simply hopping on the import bandwagon, its all about profit. the only reason any manufacturer has anything made in china is to reduce cost. not because of its superior quality and workmanship. it is simply cheaper and that's all they care about. do you honestly think american importers police the Chinese factory's?
It is a never ending cycle, america is a nation of consumers looking to get the most for the least expense. so the corporations try to meet the demands. I have worked in this business for years, I can tell you most company's don't really care.

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'Shocked .....Shocked .....to learn that gambling is going on under this very roof.'
"Here are your winnings, sir"
"Er ah....thank you."

On a more serious note, a close friend's business enterprise is in 'traffic', i.e. he arranges for the transporation of goods from one country to another, usually by ship. Since 9/11 has a become involved in the matter of port security and has made many trips to China to certify manufacturer's for a special type of security clearance providing these enterprises meet rigid criteria and standards. From what he's told me, there's a lot more on the down side going on over there than on the plus. From a materials/quality control/fit/finish/issue, guitar makers leave it to their own recognizance to assure that their brand is properly represented. Failing that, the consumers will vote with their feet. That situation with the Marshall amp should never have happenend, and that, ultimately falls at the feet of the parent company. An amp technician who does warranty repairs for outfits like Guitar Center and Sam Ash once told me that if the Fender amps made in China fail, he doesn't bother repairing them. He just cuts off the power cords and trashes them. Said it wasn't worth the time and effort. Hope that's changed since then.

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"Another day in paradise!"

I believe I saw an article the other day where the minimum wage in China is going to increase by around 20%.

This will certainly drive some companies out of China and others will raise prices to compensate.

This is really looming large over the electronics industry...

Here is just one article, plenty more out there via Google...

http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/20 ... onics-biz/

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Bob

Fender CD280S NAT, Recording King RO-127
Squier Classic Vibe 50s Telecaster BSB
American Special/Highway One Telecaster hybrid Partscaster
Fender 60th Anv Am Std Telecaster, Natural/Rosewood
http://community.webshots.com/user/rjstaaf

Yes open your eyes. The whole premise of your argument is flawed. For a start off the reason the west owes so much money to China is through government borrowing, not because we buy Chinese product. That is the reason they don't call in the debt immediately.
Also you surmise that a paranoid, capitalist hating communist country. The likes of which we haven't seen this much animosity towards since 1980 is only more than prepared to let one of the the worlds biggest musical instrument manufacturers (Behringer, I think only Yamaha are bigger) set up shop. Exploit their workforce that could happily be making bombs or undergoing bayonet training. Just to sell musical instruments to the west. It doesn't ring at all true to all the other stories we get told of communism does it?
Which brings me to the third point. The last time China disclosed any figures about their military might was 1976/77. Then their standing infantry alone was 1.2mil. Never mind the airforce or navy. Dunno what it is now, I'll bet that it's far greater than it was in '76.

Oh and South Korea is actually a capitalist country. It was allured to earlier in this thread by someone that South Korea was a bad place. It's North Korea that are the baddies.

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No no and no

the company I work for is very excited about that. it benefits the Chinese population and it also will increase our sales. all of our product is made in our facility here in Texas and I look forward to our company having to hire more people.

Things can be made in the USA for not much more than Chinese imports. all you need is people running the company that aren't money grubbing $@! hats.

G&G is a great example of a quality product at an affordable price.

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I never stated anything about the Chinese government structure other than use the word communist because it is in fact currently a communist country.
and are you saying that the massive amount of cash the american public dumps into china isn't a main part of their growth? I wasn't even talking about the us government debt.

i am going to try and explain what i mean.

say you buy a $29 Chinese toaster from Walmart. it cost Walmart $20 to buy from the distribution center and it cost the distribution center $15 to buy from china. that $15 never gets back to us. so over time the economy dwindles because more money is leaving the country than coming in. but if we just bought a domestically made toaster for $35 dollars, that money wouldn't leave the country unless some of the materials were imported. and if we export said toasters that is money coming in. not to mention jobs created in the process. and that means more people can afford to buy toasters and that will lower prices. so instead of hundreds of corporations trying to scrape money off of the resale of cheap imported foreign goods we should start producing more goods. I am sure most of the american people would rather work in a factory than be unemployed

that's all I am trying to say.

also in my opinion the government is in debt because we cannot afford to police the world. we are going to have to learn to not overextend our reach

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What a yummy thread!

I read today that China currently owns about 11-12% of our national debt, something between $1.5-2,000,000,000,000. Gotta love all those zeros there.

China puts most of the money they make off the US and Europe into two things - oil and military supplies. They have a very, very large military.

Someday, many think, China will simply take over the whole world. I hope they start with the Middle East.

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Dennis in CR
Rockin' since 1963

They are smart aboiut it too. As many people who don't like communism- this mindset extends back to the soviet coldwar era.

In all honesty- look at their economy= it's booming. Massive growth year after year. Communism, yes. It's modern communism and looking at the numbers, it works.

I'm not pro-communism, I simply don't care to be on either side of the fence of that argument. But bottom line is, whatever they are doing for their economy, it's working for them- especially if they are taking up that amount of debt.

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This was a ridiculous poll! Where something is made does not make it quality or junk. There have been luthiers making fine wood stringed instruments in Asia longer then the U.S. Also Modular guitars such as most Fenders are easier to produce then set necks or thru necks. Its the repetition of the quality that counts and that can been done anywhere with the desire to do so.

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson

SomeBizarreDude.

I fully get what you're on about. However why are these western companies allowed by the Chinese government to set up shop within their borders?

Understand my suspicion. Whatever the reason it can only lead me to believe that something other than the common supposed thinking about the situation by Joe average to be true.

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No no and no

http://news.yahoo.com/81-old-chinese-se ... 29415.html

Yeah, they've got it all under control.

they aren't really setting up shop, the factory is still Chinese owned. fender and other manufacturers submit their specs to the factory of their choice and then do an initial product inspection to ensure everything is up to their spec. after that inspection they proceed to place orders. usually the only real involvement after that is random product inspections. some company's never even step foot in the factory and if they do its usually once every few years. and much like consumer electronics the Chinese factory's will subcontract out to other factories if they cannot fill the orders on time. most of these factories make many brand names at one time. much like Cort or Samick in Korea

in my experience this is usually the process with almost all consumer goods.

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