It is currently Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:48 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 53 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
Post subject: Re: Solo performers with loop station : Cheating ??
Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:56 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:17 pm
Posts: 631
Location: Kenai, Alaska
53magnatone wrote:
EgFryer wrote:
It's just another way of producing live sound. Getting on one's high horse over the relative morality of what other musicians do is the province of amateurs.


...

The point is...In a live setting...Play for real...If you need tape loops, echoplexes, digital delay's and a whole rack full of wizardry then you are not a musician.
Live means exactly that, mistakes and sometimes great melodies....

The studio is completely different, but if you cannot play your compositions live without the aid of all the studio gadgetry then the compositions are worthless...
Go listen to a Cajun or Celtic band or a Classical Player. There's no smoke and mirrors, it is the players themselves rflecting many years of study, not a quick fix.



It depends on what you do with it. There are amazing things that you can do with loop pedals that NOBODY can reproduce without one, no matter how talented they are. If a loop pedal was just meant to be a crutch for musicians, they'd advertise it as such. It's not.

"High horses," "playing for real..." none of that matters at all.

_________________
"Speak the truth, and speak it ever,
cost it what it will
for he who hides the wrong he did
did the wrong thing still."
-Miss Uel


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: Solo performers with loop station : Cheating ??
Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:55 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:35 pm
Posts: 1212
Location: No way
Using a loop-station is of course no cheating- it is a true piece of art if it's done properly! :D
IMO -that is when it's all recorded all at the 'occasion' You need talent-skills- fantasy - and a good looper ! Skills in playing- and how to use the looper. You can have great fun with a simple looper ( I use a Cube XL40 as a practice amp - loops for 80 sec , with multiple layers- perfect for testing ideas and having fun!)
There are plenty brands to use out there, but it seems to me that the Roland rc50 is a very good choice if you want to 'be serious' about live looping! Many artists do this - and here is an example from an artist I like a lot ! Enjoy :lol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjEsAEsYCw4

_________________
ImageA-man


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Solo performers with loop station : Cheating ??
Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:36 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Fri May 15, 2009 12:39 pm
Posts: 1466
Location: Birmingham UK
My collaborator and I use drum/bass loops all the time live.

At 51, I'm long past the stage where I'm going to faff around endlessly trying to find a reliable drummer. And in the past when we HAVE been able to find a good drummer who turns up practised and on time, then we've been short of a bass player. And vice versa. It was just on-going torture all the time, and it stopped us from playing. We simply took the decision that we wouldn't be held hostage by these people anymore.

These days we let technology take the strain: loop pedals, looping stations and even PC midi files. All pre-programmed by us of course..

There are some places where we can't play with that set up, but there's many where we can. So really I don't give a damn about it anymore. Our limitless drum and bass sounds are all multi sampled, absolutely top drawer and perfectly recorded. And if we need a completely different drum or bass sound for a particular number, then it's just not a problem..

And the best thing is that our drummerdoesn'tconstantlyspeedup t h e n s l o w d o wn thenspeedupagain t h e n s l o w d o w n and he never ever forgets the arrangement. He doesn't smell, dribble and doesn't winge about carrying stuff :wink: 8)

_________________
Fender Highway & Classic 60s Strats, Fender Toronado, Telecaster, Gretsch Projet, Charvel 3, PRS SE Soapbar II & Custom 24, Burns Batwing and many others!


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Solo performers with loop station : Cheating ??
Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:48 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:39 pm
Posts: 3399
Location: teh webz?
53magnatone wrote:
EgFryer wrote:
It's just another way of producing live sound. Getting on one's high horse over the relative morality of what other musicians do is the province of amateurs.


You cannot produce a live sound...You can only create a live sound...
Production infers recording, playback, editing....

A live sound depends on an audible note having a finite existence.
At some point it ( the note ) decays beyond audible range..and is gone.

As far as morality.... Or a high horse.... :roll: You advertise yourself at least three times in your post....

The point is...In a live setting...Play for real...If you need tape loops, echoplexes, digital delay's and a whole rack full of wizardry then you are not a musician.
Live means exactly that, mistakes and sometimes great melodies....

The studio is completely different, but if you cannot play your compositions live without the aid of all the studio gadgetry then the compositions are worthless...
Go listen to a Cajun or Celtic band or a Classical Player. There's no smoke and mirrors, it is the players themselves rflecting many years of study, not a quick fix.

LOL


You don't seem to get the fact that they aren't substituting playing with it, but adding to playing with it. Anyone who just outright says "lolz efectz suk an u suk if u yooz dem lolz" is just.... lol

_________________
Favorite bands:

Melvins
The Jesus Lizard
Cows
Big Business
R***man
Minutemen
Flight
Minor Threat
Big Black
Shellac
Karp
Scratch Acid
Wipers
Pixies


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Solo performers with loop station : Cheating ??
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:49 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:29 am
Posts: 4238
Location: Pgh Pa
Go watch some of the things Steve Vi does with a loop station. Its amazing


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Solo performers with loop station : Cheating ??
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:51 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:46 pm
Posts: 2041
adey wrote:
My collaborator and I use drum/bass loops all the time live.

At 51, I'm long past the stage where I'm going to faff around endlessly trying to find a reliable drummer. And in the past when we HAVE been able to find a good drummer who turns up practised and on time, then we've been short of a bass player. And vice versa. It was just on-going torture all the time, and it stopped us from playing. We simply took the decision that we wouldn't be held hostage by these people anymore.

These days we let technology take the strain: loop pedals, looping stations and even PC midi files. All pre-programmed by us of course..

A man after my own heart. I started using backing tracks for live performance when I got my first G-DEC 30. When I teamed up with another guitar player we used backing tracks with drums, bass and occasional piano to give us the sound of a five-piece band. We both sing and both use harmonizers as well, so God bless technology and anyone smart enough to use it.

ROCK ON!

_________________
Dennis in CR
Rockin' since 1963


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Solo performers with loop station : Cheating ??
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:06 am
Offline
Roadie
Roadie
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:26 am
Posts: 253
53magnatone wrote:
You cannot produce a live sound...You can only create a live sound...
Production infers recording, playback, editing....

As far as morality.... Or a high horse.... :roll: You advertise yourself at least three times in your post....

The point is...In a live setting...Play for real...If you need tape loops, echoplexes, digital delay's and a whole rack full of wizardry then you are not a musician..



Huh?

First: Your semantics are wrong, which is no surprise. "Produce doesn't mean "record in a studio with effects and stuff and junk." It means this:

pro·duce   [v. pruh-doos, -dyoos; n. prod-oos, -yoos, proh-doos, -dyoos] Show IPA verb, -duced, -duc·ing, noun
verb (used with object)
1. to bring into existence; give rise to; cause: to produce steam.
2. to bring into existence by intellectual or creative ability: to produce a great painting.
3. to make or manufacture: to produce automobiles for export.

Second: I'm not "advertising" myself, (I don't expect to find commercial music customers on this forum), just letting people know who I am, and even if I was looking for customers, that has nothing to do with this argument. In fact, you've climbed up on your moral high horse again by implying I'm guilty of some ethical infraction. I repeat that only amateur musicians worry about who "sold out" or who's "cheating." Professionals do not. Jesus, what is this, a junior high lunch table?

And third... "not a musician?" Man, your definition of "music" must be incredibly narrow. To anyone who thinks using devices like loopers is "cheating," I challenge you to try using one to "produce" (or "create," if you insist) something interesting... it's a hell of a lot harder than it looks.

_________________
Jim Bordner
Gravity Music - www.gravitymusic.com
Composer, producer, Egnater Artist


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Solo performers with loop station : Cheating ??
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:17 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:29 am
Posts: 4238
Location: Pgh Pa
Watch this.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY8wyKuLY2k


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Solo performers with loop station : Cheating ??
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:19 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:18 am
Posts: 3084
Floyd_The_Barber wrote:
It's not cheating, and uf you know what you're doing you do some really cool s***. It's also a good option for lead guitarists without a rhythm guitarist, such as myself, so they can write songs with multiple parts.

The only way I could see it MAYBE being cheating is if you record the loops beforehand and "fix them up", etc..

Play part 1 into loop station, have it loop, start part 2. Simple as that.


+1

cheers :D

_________________
It's the possibility of having a dream come true that makes life interesting - paulo coelho


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Solo performers with loop station : Cheating ??
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:21 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Fri May 15, 2009 12:39 pm
Posts: 1466
Location: Birmingham UK
CRGuitarMan wrote:
When I teamed up with another guitar player we used backing tracks with drums, bass and occasional piano to give us the sound of a five-piece band. We both sing and both use harmonizers as well, so God bless technology and anyone smart enough to use it.

ROCK ON!


Cool. We throw in the odd piano or brass line too, just so I can concentrate on Organ.
And intelligent harmonisers are great too - our weapon of choice is the Digitech Voice Live 2, which is an awesome piece of kit. Gender bending harmonies controlled by midi are wonderful!!

_________________
Fender Highway & Classic 60s Strats, Fender Toronado, Telecaster, Gretsch Projet, Charvel 3, PRS SE Soapbar II & Custom 24, Burns Batwing and many others!


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Solo performers with loop station : Cheating ??
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:43 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 2:02 pm
Posts: 43
Yep it was. Sorry... :(

I still don't think using a looper is cheating if it's your own work.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Solo performers with loop station : Cheating ??
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:20 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:46 pm
Posts: 2041
adey wrote:
CRGuitarMan wrote:
When I teamed up with another guitar player we used backing tracks with drums, bass and occasional piano to give us the sound of a five-piece band. We both sing and both use harmonizers as well, so God bless technology and anyone smart enough to use it.

ROCK ON!


Cool. We throw in the odd piano or brass line too, just so I can concentrate on Organ.
And intelligent harmonisers are great too - our weapon of choice is the Digitech Voice Live 2, which is an awesome piece of kit. Gender bending harmonies controlled by midi are wonderful!!

Rick and I use Digitech Voice Live 4 models. Usually whoever is singing harmony or backup vocals uses harmonies through his Digitech to improve the sound and depth of the harmony parts. Once you get those puppies down, they are nothing short of incredible!

_________________
Dennis in CR
Rockin' since 1963


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Solo performers with loop station : Cheating ??
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:57 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:33 pm
Posts: 1084
Location: NoHo in SoCal
In the context of a performance, using a looper isn't cheating. That would be true of using the guitar to trigger a variety of synth effects, even if none remotely resembled a guitar. As long as you're creating the efx based on your vision and direction, it's your expression, your performance. I don't really know where you draw the line between art and technical skill demonstration but I've heard people playing guitar with technical mastery and (to me) no soul. I've heard people using electronica and coming up with moving pieces.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Solo performers with loop station : Cheating ??
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:47 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:11 pm
Posts: 2330
Location: location, location.
philip602 wrote:
people using electronica and coming up with moving pieces.

This comes to mind http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYIAfiVGluk&ob=av2n

_________________
Rated "M" for meaty.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Solo performers with loop station : Cheating ??
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:29 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Fri May 15, 2009 12:39 pm
Posts: 1466
Location: Birmingham UK
CRGuitarMan wrote:
Rick and I use Digitech Voice Live 4 models. Usually whoever is singing harmony or backup vocals uses harmonies through his Digitech to improve the sound and depth of the harmony parts. Once you get those puppies down, they are nothing short of incredible!


Sorry, I lied to you.. Just checked - we use the TC Helicon Voice Live 2. The choir setting makes you go :shock:

But I'm pleased to see that you are embracing the technology as well CRGuitarMan. And anyone else exploring the dark side :wink:

There is of course nothing better than playing with a slick and talented drum & bass pairing, but those are like rocking horse sh*t at the good amateur/semi-pro level.

_________________
Fender Highway & Classic 60s Strats, Fender Toronado, Telecaster, Gretsch Projet, Charvel 3, PRS SE Soapbar II & Custom 24, Burns Batwing and many others!


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 53 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: