It depends on what you do with it. There are amazing things that you can do with loop pedals that NOBODY can reproduce without one, no matter how talented they are. If a loop pedal was just meant to be a crutch for musicians, they'd advertise it as such. It's not.

"High horses," "playing for real..." none of that matters at all.

_________________
"Speak the truth, and speak it ever,
cost it what it will
for he who hides the wrong he did
did the wrong thing still."
-Miss Uel

Using a loop-station is of course no cheating- it is a true piece of art if it's done properly!
IMO -that is when it's all recorded all at the 'occasion' You need talent-skills- fantasy - and a good looper ! Skills in playing- and how to use the looper. You can have great fun with a simple looper ( I use a Cube XL40 as a practice amp - loops for 80 sec , with multiple layers- perfect for testing ideas and having fun!)
There are plenty brands to use out there, but it seems to me that the Roland rc50 is a very good choice if you want to 'be serious' about live looping! Many artists do this - and here is an example from an artist I like a lot ! Enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjEsAEsYCw4

_________________
A-man

My collaborator and I use drum/bass loops all the time live.

At 51, I'm long past the stage where I'm going to faff around endlessly trying to find a reliable drummer. And in the past when we HAVE been able to find a good drummer who turns up practised and on time, then we've been short of a bass player. And vice versa. It was just on-going torture all the time, and it stopped us from playing. We simply took the decision that we wouldn't be held hostage by these people anymore.

These days we let technology take the strain: loop pedals, looping stations and even PC midi files. All pre-programmed by us of course..

There are some places where we can't play with that set up, but there's many where we can. So really I don't give a damn about it anymore. Our limitless drum and bass sounds are all multi sampled, absolutely top drawer and perfectly recorded. And if we need a completely different drum or bass sound for a particular number, then it's just not a problem..

And the best thing is that our drummerdoesn'tconstantlyspeedup t h e n s l o w d o wn thenspeedupagain t h e n s l o w d o w n and he never ever forgets the arrangement. He doesn't smell, dribble and doesn't winge about carrying stuff

_________________
Fender Highway & Classic 60s Strats, Fender Toronado, Telecaster, Gretsch Projet, Charvel 3, PRS SE Soapbar II & Custom 24, Burns Batwing and many others!

LOL


You don't seem to get the fact that they aren't substituting playing with it, but adding to playing with it. Anyone who just outright says "lolz efectz suk an u suk if u yooz dem lolz" is just.... lol

_________________
Favorite bands:

Melvins
The Jesus Lizard
Cows
Big Business
R***man
Minutemen
Flight
Minor Threat
Big Black
Shellac
Karp
Scratch Acid
Wipers
Pixies

Go watch some of the things Steve Vi does with a loop station. Its amazing

A man after my own heart. I started using backing tracks for live performance when I got my first G-DEC 30. When I teamed up with another guitar player we used backing tracks with drums, bass and occasional piano to give us the sound of a five-piece band. We both sing and both use harmonizers as well, so God bless technology and anyone smart enough to use it.

ROCK ON!

_________________
Dennis in CR
Rockin' since 1963

Huh?

First: Your semantics are wrong, which is no surprise. "Produce doesn't mean "record in a studio with effects and stuff and junk." It means this:

pro·duce   [v. pruh-doos, -dyoos; n. prod-oos, -yoos, proh-doos, -dyoos] Show IPA verb, -duced, -duc·ing, noun
verb (used with object)
1. to bring into existence; give rise to; cause: to produce steam.
2. to bring into existence by intellectual or creative ability: to produce a great painting.
3. to make or manufacture: to produce automobiles for export.

Second: I'm not "advertising" myself, (I don't expect to find commercial music customers on this forum), just letting people know who I am, and even if I was looking for customers, that has nothing to do with this argument. In fact, you've climbed up on your moral high horse again by implying I'm guilty of some ethical infraction. I repeat that only amateur musicians worry about who "sold out" or who's "cheating." Professionals do not. Jesus, what is this, a junior high lunch table?

And third... "not a musician?" Man, your definition of "music" must be incredibly narrow. To anyone who thinks using devices like loopers is "cheating," I challenge you to try using one to "produce" (or "create," if you insist) something interesting... it's a hell of a lot harder than it looks.

_________________
Jim Bordner
Gravity Music - www.gravitymusic.com
Composer, producer, Egnater Artist

Watch this.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY8wyKuLY2k

+1

cheers

_________________
It's the possibility of having a dream come true that makes life interesting - paulo coelho

Cool. We throw in the odd piano or brass line too, just so I can concentrate on Organ.
And intelligent harmonisers are great too - our weapon of choice is the Digitech Voice Live 2, which is an awesome piece of kit. Gender bending harmonies controlled by midi are wonderful!!

_________________
Fender Highway & Classic 60s Strats, Fender Toronado, Telecaster, Gretsch Projet, Charvel 3, PRS SE Soapbar II & Custom 24, Burns Batwing and many others!

Yep it was. Sorry...

I still don't think using a looper is cheating if it's your own work.

Rick and I use Digitech Voice Live 4 models. Usually whoever is singing harmony or backup vocals uses harmonies through his Digitech to improve the sound and depth of the harmony parts. Once you get those puppies down, they are nothing short of incredible!

_________________
Dennis in CR
Rockin' since 1963

In the context of a performance, using a looper isn't cheating. That would be true of using the guitar to trigger a variety of synth effects, even if none remotely resembled a guitar. As long as you're creating the efx based on your vision and direction, it's your expression, your performance. I don't really know where you draw the line between art and technical skill demonstration but I've heard people playing guitar with technical mastery and (to me) no soul. I've heard people using electronica and coming up with moving pieces.

This comes to mind http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYIAfiVGluk&ob=av2n

_________________
Rated "M" for meaty.

Sorry, I lied to you.. Just checked - we use the TC Helicon Voice Live 2. The choir setting makes you go

But I'm pleased to see that you are embracing the technology as well CRGuitarMan. And anyone else exploring the dark side

There is of course nothing better than playing with a slick and talented drum & bass pairing, but those are like rocking horse sh*t at the good amateur/semi-pro level.

_________________
Fender Highway & Classic 60s Strats, Fender Toronado, Telecaster, Gretsch Projet, Charvel 3, PRS SE Soapbar II & Custom 24, Burns Batwing and many others!