Hi CB: I'm sure there's nothing cheating about loopers - or backing tracks, for that matter. It's what people do with them that counts.

But what does worry me about loop stations is the danger that it all gets extremely repetitive very fast. One or two numbers built that way can be ingenious and fun. But almost always it centers on one small musical phrase going around and around and around - and that gets old in no time.

Very quickly I find myself lo-o-o-o-onging for a bridge section, or some modulation, or something to break up the repetition. It takes A LOT of skill and imagination to avoid that problem with a looper.

What would be handy on this thread is if people post good examples of using loop stations. Then we have something to discuss.

Here's KT Tunstall doing Black Horse & The Cherry Tree live on Jools Holland's show. This was the performance that gave her the break-through and she's built a successful career from this moment on. However, I saw her live a few months ago and she had the very good sense only to use the looper twice in the set - and even by the end of the second number with it everyone was feeling, "That's enough now, Katie. Bring the band back on, please".

A little goes a long way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYEU91d8ngc

Cheers - C

_________________

I do not believe it is cheating, just a different kind of live performance. Art always changes with technology, it is up to the audience to decide if they enjoy it and are willing to pay good money for the privilege. A performer who has 400 paid shows using a looper kinda indicates its being accepted.

I watched a lot of looper performances on youtube, some are really creative and show off the performers talents. I never thought any were cheating, just something a little different, and good in my books.

The Boss looper world finals are this weekend. Check em out.

For the Rush fans, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4vd9OVLO7Q

Well, my point earlier in the thread was that my loops last a lot longer than usual. And that is why it may be better to pre-record them... I guess if the audience doesnt mind hearing me go through the rhythm naked for an extended period of time, then maybe its ok...

_________________
In Reference to Blues Legend RL Burnside:
After a heart attack in 2001, Burnside's doctor advised him to stop drinking; Burnside did, but he reported that change left him unable to play.

I thnink one aspect we are not addressing is who is really out there in the audience... Ill bet at this wedding I play at less than 5% of the audience are musicians.... Of those 5%, probably 1% (or nobody) has any idea what a loop station is...

I mean a vast majority of people could care less about your equipment or even know you just recorded yourself and your playing it back... Especially if its the same guitar you are playing... It would fool most...

They do care however what you look like, how loud you are, emotion/body-language/energy displayed, what tempo you are playing in, sometimes what songs you are playing, and how well you are playing (creativity, dynamics, accuracy etc...).

Its very rare I get compliments on my $3500 les paul custom.... Or my ES-137.... Or my deluxe reverb..... Very few of our audience members are guitar players or even musicians...

_________________
In Reference to Blues Legend RL Burnside:
After a heart attack in 2001, Burnside's doctor advised him to stop drinking; Burnside did, but he reported that change left him unable to play.

CB you hadn't mentioned up until now that the solo performance is a wedding.

All the more reason to keep it simple..
The Bride and Groom are the focus so you are going to have to figure out what will be in the background yet still occupy space in the sound realm.

As I posted earlier a Classical guitar allows you to color your sound much more dramatically.
You might want to see about trying out other nylon strings such as a Flamenco guitar, again focus is the sound of musical notes.

_________________
"C'est parti mon Kiki "

Good point Cajun Blues. During the past four years of my experience using a loop live, more often than not people don't notice or care what I'm using. Most of the venues I do are bars & restaurants with a few yearly festivals & private parties thrown in. With Clubs, it's always the same deal: You have the people in the room who love live music & really get into it, then there are those who are there just because going to clubs & sitting on a bar stool is what they do, & occasionally there's someone in the audience attentive enough to ask me "How do you play lead & rhythm at the same time"? Then I show them what I'm using & explain it briefly. Sometimes they aren't musicians, but most that notice are musicians.


I think most of the people who've commented on this subject have made good points so far (both yay & nay) about loops.

I go it alone & a loop is a great option that allows me to keep costs low & personal income higher as an independent musician.

Could I gig without a loop? Yes

Have I? Yes.

But,,, I have more fun using the loop. It enables me to showcase more of what I can offer as a guitarist (when performing solo), & even if NO ONE in the audience cares that I can play lead, I'm having fun doing it & that's what matters...

After all, artists do what they do because it's what they want to do. I play music for me because it's what I love doing. If some people connect with my music in the process, COOL.

No - - it's not cheating!

Love,
Bill Frisell and Arthur Lee Land

_________________
Being able to play and enjoy music is a gift that's often taken for granted.

Don't leave home without it!

Hi again CB: you are right, it is absolutely vital to address who the audience is. And if it's for a wedding then that makes me have serious doubts about using a loop station - at least if it's for the sort of thing most people do with them (obviously, most of us don't know how you yourself use one - be delighted to hear any tracks you'd like to share?).

For instance, here is NeanderPaul doing his looping thing. This guy has it down better than most I've come across:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5IAQVPG ... re=related

That's great, and appeals to musos and non-musos at the same time. But it is a performance, and of a kind that would be totally inappropriate at a wedding. Even for non-musicians NeanderPaul is about watching him and wondering how one guy can make all that sound at the same time. At a wedding people don't want any of that: they want some nice, familiar, danceable songs. Musicians should not be the center of attention at weddings.

And even with someone of the quality of NeanderPaul, after just a couple of numbers I have definitely had enough of hearing the same phrase go round and round. Jacob Moon, in inbalance99's post above, is a better way to go, because he is just using the looper as a tool to help him play occasional passages of the number. It's not entirely built around the looper.

If you could play a whole wedding-friendly set in that way - then hey, go for it! Kudos to you.

Cheers - C

_________________

Why would you not want to be able to use any and every technique and tool at your disposal?

_________________
Rated "M" for meaty.

Well since we have drifted into addressing this gig specifically...

It's a wedding cocktail hour, my band owner includes music for the cocktail hour along with music for the reception (dancing).... We are a Jazz Big Band...

Usually the client requests a keyboardist/piano.. This time they requested a "Classical Guitar".... We are still trying to get things sorted out as to if they want pure Classical or Flamenco music... If that is the case, Ill have to pass the gig off... In the meantime I am prepared to play some Latin Jazz/Crossover tunes on a nylon string guitar...

Yes, I know they should have cleared up what the client wants before hand... you are preaching to the choir...

I have done a wedding cocktail hour once before... But it was myself and a vocalist... That worked very well...

Now me all by myself.... it sounds like a tall chore... but whatever, you only live once... right...

_________________
In Reference to Blues Legend RL Burnside:
After a heart attack in 2001, Burnside's doctor advised him to stop drinking; Burnside did, but he reported that change left him unable to play.

No more comments ? man these posts get buried quick..

_________________
In Reference to Blues Legend RL Burnside:
After a heart attack in 2001, Burnside's doctor advised him to stop drinking; Burnside did, but he reported that change left him unable to play.

When we were on our cruise last year one of the solo entertainers used a looper so discreetly that it took me quite a while to notice-they can be used tastefully to really enhance the performance.And no it wasn't because of the blue Margaritas that it took me so long to notice.

_________________
'65 Strat,65 Mustang,65 Jaguar,4 more Strats,3 vintage Vox guitars,5 Vox amps,'69 Bassman with a '68 2-15 Bassman cab,36 guitars total-15asst'd amps total,2 vintage '60s Hammond organs & a myriad of effects-with a few rare vintage ones.

Until my band finds a drummer we use a drum machine... is it cheating?
I don't care.

_________________
Tune Low, Play Hard & Floor it!

This ain't too bad an example of Looper Work either.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq8hiZPq ... re=related

This was the first time I saw KT Tunstall and at that time I didn't know what a looper was. She did ok.

Hello frankg12: I think that number might have been posted earlier on the page...

Cheers - C

_________________