So, I have been invited to play my nylon string guitar for a solo perfromance.... Ive seen a lot of guitarist these days using loop stations and/or backing tracks...

So what do you think, is this "cheating" ? Any and all opinions are welcome...

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In Reference to Blues Legend RL Burnside:
After a heart attack in 2001, Burnside's doctor advised him to stop drinking; Burnside did, but he reported that change left him unable to play.

Yea. I like completely live stuff.

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1984 Squier Contemporary Stratocaster
1986 Peavey Envoy 110
1967 Kingston Acoustic

Is it real... Or is it Memorex.... ..

To using tape loops, I say go and listen live to Oscar Lopez, Peppino D'agostino, Pierre Bensusan
They don't....

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"C'est parti mon Kiki "

its not cheating, but its not pure either

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riley

It's just another way of producing live sound. Getting on one's high horse over the relative morality of what other musicians do is the province of amateurs.

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Jim Bordner
Gravity Music - www.gravitymusic.com
Composer, producer, Egnater Artist

You cannot produce a live sound...You can only create a live sound...
Production infers recording, playback, editing....

A live sound depends on an audible note having a finite existence.
At some point it ( the note ) decays beyond audible range..and is gone.

As far as morality.... Or a high horse.... You advertise yourself at least three times in your post....

The point is...In a live setting...Play for real...If you need tape loops, echoplexes, digital delay's and a whole rack full of wizardry then you are not a musician.
Live means exactly that, mistakes and sometimes great melodies....

The studio is completely different, but if you cannot play your compositions live without the aid of all the studio gadgetry then the compositions are worthless...
Go listen to a Cajun or Celtic band or a Classical Player. There's no smoke and mirrors, it is the players themselves rflecting many years of study, not a quick fix.

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"C'est parti mon Kiki "

It's not cheating, and uf you know what you're doing you do some really cool s***. It's also a good option for lead guitarists without a rhythm guitarist, such as myself, so they can write songs with multiple parts.

The only way I could see it MAYBE being cheating is if you record the loops beforehand and "fix them up", etc..

Play part 1 into loop station, have it loop, start part 2. Simple as that.

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Favorite bands:

Melvins
The Jesus Lizard
Cows
Big Business
R***man
Minutemen
Flight
Minor Threat
Big Black
Shellac
Karp
Scratch Acid
Wipers
Pixies

There was this one band that came from Ireland (forgot the name) and their keyboardist stayed at home with his newborn and they used a loop. I understand that.

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1984 Squier Contemporary Stratocaster
1986 Peavey Envoy 110
1967 Kingston Acoustic

Yes.... but Floyd...Were talking about a solo performance on a nylon string or preferably classical guitar. It's pretty naked but that's the whole point.
There should not be digital or analog anything.

With ten fingers ( most of us ) the parameters are quite extensive.
Plus on a nylon string, your attack is going to say volumes.
Piano...Fortessimo...

If you listen and watch someone like David Russell or Julian Bream or Christopher Parkening, Muriel Anderson....
It really should force you to go back home and try to figure out how they are getting that sound and it's projection....
Having the audience walk out puzzled as to how what they just heard was naturally possible should be our goal....

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"C'est parti mon Kiki "

Phil Keaggy has been doing this for years. He used to have a rock band in the 70's called "Glass Harp". He's now a christian solo artist.
I"ve seen him many times create a whole band sound with only him and his acoustic guitar. He'll lay down a rhythm track ,detune his guitar for a bass track, tap on his guitar for his drums, Play 3 part harmony leads, and sings & he's the only one on the stage & its live....
One of my top 10 guitar players & most guitar players in ohio. and he's extraodinary on electric guitar.Theres a alot of vids of him on "Youtube".
Cheating? Nope it's talent.

Floyd. Thanks for your response... but I am unclear how recording the loop before hand is different than doing it live... its the same loop ??

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In Reference to Blues Legend RL Burnside:
After a heart attack in 2001, Burnside's doctor advised him to stop drinking; Burnside did, but he reported that change left him unable to play.

You start playing the song (guitar part 1) with and record it, then once you have it you let it run and play the lead. As opposed to a pre-made loop, you are simply using what you JUST played, an actual part of the song, only now you can do what would have required you AND an extremely bored rhythm guitarist.

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Favorite bands:

Melvins
The Jesus Lizard
Cows
Big Business
R***man
Minutemen
Flight
Minor Threat
Big Black
Shellac
Karp
Scratch Acid
Wipers
Pixies

problem I am having with my loop station is I want the click track ON when I am recording the rhythm and I want it OFF on playback... That would be tough to do live... Also my rhythym runs are long...

But I do get your point... For a short run it would be a good thing to do it live..

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In Reference to Blues Legend RL Burnside:
After a heart attack in 2001, Burnside's doctor advised him to stop drinking; Burnside did, but he reported that change left him unable to play.

No, it's not cheating. It takes good timing & talent to use a loop live. I've been doing it for over four years. I record rhythms (LIVE) while I'm singing the verse, then I go back & (seemlessly) play lead over the rhythm. It takes time & live experience with the loop to do it smoothly & not have a train wreck on stage. The loop I have on my pedal board has drums but I don't use them. I prefer to keep it all guitar.

Before I go any further, I will say that there is a BIG difference between a loop station & taped backing tracks. Anyone familiar with running a loop pedal will understand that statement.

Both have their uses depending on what you're looking for, but I wouldn't call either cheating as long as the musicians on stage are the ones who've made/performed the backing tracks. I've seen Van Halen live 5 times. None of which did Eddie touch a Keyboard, but the Keyboard parts were there in the audio of all the songs that have keyboards. We all know Eddie wrote & recorded those keyboard parts. Was he cheating when I saw him play live? NO, he wasn't. He simply chose not to pay someone to do something that technology can do for him.

Anyone that would down someone for using a loop is likely ignorant in regards to the technology, narrow minded, unable to do two things at once, or just a jealous three chord strummer.

In my honest opinion based on doing over 400 gigs using a loop station, it's a lot easier to camp out on the 1st four frets & play rhythm all night while singing than it is to do all that + incorporate seemless leads over your own rhythm through the use of a loop.

That's not to say that I haven't seen solo performers bring great energy to a stage without a loop, I'm just saying, if you are able to play lead & rhythm, using a loop is a great way to incorporate both.

It also depends largely on what type of style player you are & the type of music you play. A lot of guitarists would never have a need or use for a loop. I play & sing classic rock & blues & my originals are of that genre/flavor as well. So for me, a loop station is really useful.

If & when you master using a loop it's a beautiful thing. You add depth to the "solo" performance & you don't have to pay another guitarist to sit there & play rhythm all night.

I really enjoy "gelling" with other musicians, but for someone (like me) who's trying to carve out a living as an independent "solo" guitarist, singer, songwriter, a loop makes perfect sense. For the price of $250.00 I've been able to avoid splitting the earnings of over 400 gigs.

I do not consider it cheating, I consider it a creative use of technology. Cheating would be having someone else record leads & rhythms for you, then you stand on stage & pretend to play.

In the case of using a loop, it's all me... The rhythms & the leads.

I wouldn’t get all high and mighty and call it cheating, but personally I like to see my music live. If I hear anything that I cant see being played live, whether keyboard, backing tracks, or something recorded live onstage into a loop pedal 20 seconds ago, I lose interest. Its not live music to me anymore, its something `fixed`. I love bands, if there’s a part needed I want to see the person playing it, if that musician gets bored, there’s normally a reason for it and how he/she avoids that repetitive boredom makes the music more interesting.

I could rant about this for ages, but ive seen these loop pedals getting more and more popular over time and its just not for me. Think my girlfriend is sick of me shouting in her ear about it at gigs. `Its not big, its not clever`, is my usual one. I always want to storm up on stage and clip the offending looper round the ear.

Please, not hoping to offend anyone, each to their own and all that. I know some people have made their whole style using this kind of technology, but its just not for me. KT Tunstall seemed to get a lot of praise for her use of it, but I still found myself sitting there bored thinking `can you imagine this with the energy and character of a whole band around her playing all these parts?`

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`I prefer not to listen to music that I can't rip off or improve on` - Ian Dury