Just curious what some of you think. I'm extremely interested in the whole "modern amp with no use of pedals vs vintage amp with the use of pedals" thing.

I currently use a Peavey Classic 50 with some pedals. The amp alone is really cool, but I've always liked using delay, vibe, phase etc... I have a Fulltone OCD V4 on my pedal board, but I prefer the pre-amp dirt of the Peavey far over & above the OCD. The OCD is a great boost while set on low drive, but it becomes less articulate as i add more drive eventually turning to mud.

It has me wondering why there are two very solid schools of thought on the Overdrive/distortion subject. One being, get it from the amp.... The other being, use a clean amp as a platform & get your dirt from stompboxes.

I realize OD & distortion (although related) are two different things. I'm not talking about CRANKED power tube overdrive either. I'm talking about what you get from preamp tubes vs pedals, at controlled volumes. The kind of overdrive that is usuable & practical in the average club situations.

When I picture the comparison, here's what comes to mind.

The Mesa Boogie Electradyne (IMO) is a fine example of modern touches with vintage simplicity. If someone were to say to me " I don't want to use overdrive or distortion pedals, I want a simple amp that will give me clean to distortion & a lot in between" I'd tell them to consider the Electradyne. (I'm not trying to push or sell Mesas or anything, I just happen to think the electra dyne is an awesome example of what I'm talking about).
Marshall's JVM is also an example of this (the most simple version being the JVM205C), also the Peavey Classic series, and Fender's Super Sonic, but I think the Electradyne keeps it more vintage feeling with only 6 knobs.

On the other hand, a simple, bare bones vintage amp or even a re-issue is a beautiful platform (& often most preferred) to build on with pedals.

I'd like to hear your views on these two school's of thought concerning where to get overdrive & distortion from.

Thanks
JPH

in my opinion the big difference is the dynamics. I think that natural amp overdrive responds to the subtle picking technique changes better and reacts to the players touch more. peddles to me seem to add compression and are less reactive to dynamics. but thats just what i think i hear

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Personally I like my Line 6 with all of the great extra stuff built in. I bought the simple pedal so I can only choose between four sounds on the fly but that's more than enough. I have one set to really clean acoustic-y sound, one that's still pretty clean with a little reverb and just a hint of delay, than that same sound with a little crunch added, and than a really raunchy crunchy one.

Four sounds is more than enough, one connection from pedal to amp and that's a Cat 5 cord. Very convenient, have had no problems with it in the 3 years I've owned it.

I have owned 2 amps and they both have drive channels. The first is a solid state Fender Ultimate Chorus and the second is a tube, Traynor YCV40WR. I have always liked having a drive channel. I use very few pedals. When I used to gig with the Fender, I used the drive channel, with a fuzz pedal for boost and a wah. I haven't used the Traynor as much due to time, but one of the reasons I bought it was becasuse of the drive channel. I am a simplistic player. I usually just plug in and play. I have bought a few DanElectro pedals recently, but I have barely used them.

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I am very happy somewhere in between-my blackstar HT-5R has 2 channels-clean(volume and tone) and gain(volume and gain), and also reverb, ISF, and bass, mid, treble. It sounds great and responds to my "touch"-picking intensity etc, but has enough on board to just use the amp. Plus it has amazing reverb...................

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"reach for the sky and aim for the moon, for if you miss you will end up among the stars"

Zoom MS50G
72 tele dlx RI
2011 standard strat
Blackstar HT-5R
Taylor Big Baby

http://www.youtube.com/user/Almungo/videos?flow=grid&view=0

I love the little blackstar HT1R combo I have for those middle of the night idea recordings. fantastic little amp! I threw in some amperex tubes I had lying around and it opened up the tone allot and took out the muddy bottom end. I also replaced the push button switch with a sterio jack so I could use a foot pedal but the canels are very unbalanced it is a very dynamic touch sensitive little amp and simple.

back to the discussion. less is more in my opinion. 2 overdrive's and the turbo tuner are all I have on my tiny pedal board. that's one reason I use the Hughes & Kettner statesman. just reverb,fender clean and marshall gain with a boost button. I don't need allot of whistles and bells. its all in the fingers! i hate when things start to sound stale and digital. but maybe its all in my head

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The HT5R is great because the sound is better than the 1, but more noticeably, it can be used for band practice and small gigs-it's definitely loud enough;) I wish I did but I don't have space for multiple amps for different purposes otherwise I would have a 1.

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"reach for the sky and aim for the moon, for if you miss you will end up among the stars"

Zoom MS50G
72 tele dlx RI
2011 standard strat
Blackstar HT-5R
Taylor Big Baby

http://www.youtube.com/user/Almungo/videos?flow=grid&view=0

Hi JPH74,

I have typically agreed with the school of thought to have a very clean amp for headroom and get the effects from pedals. More recently though, I like a third option, use the right tube amp, with the amp cranked and use the guitar volume to go from cleaner sound to driven sound. The less gear that you have, the less likely you are to have problems, and the easier it is to grab and go, and easier setup for impromptu jamming, which is all I do anyway since I'm not a pro player.

But, the grab and go, with ease of setup, AND effects, are advantages of the amps that have built-in effects. Typically, the built-in aren't as good as the separate effects, but many of the newer products can come very close. The newer type effects use a new technology, that is more like software based, and doesn't sound "digital", it sounds much more "analog". The Line 6 equipment is pretty darned good IMO, and I enjoy using my POD with a nice clean tube amp for some excellent amp models. All of the POD effects are also great, nearly infinitely tweak-able, and the presets come very close to the real models in sound. Though I would still prefer a separate POD and amp as opposed to built into the amp.

I find myself using just a tube amp and guitar most of the time, with a touch of built-in reverb, using only the amp's adjustment to get a good driven tone that cleans up when the guitar volume is turned down. Of course, no one would pay to hear me play, so.... It is a trade-off, what do you want, convenience, portability, tone?

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---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.

I have amps of both types and both have their advantages and disadvantages.An amp with all the bells and whistles built in means much less lugging about of pedals and cable tangle but the downside of it is that if just one on-board effect goes on the blink the whole amp is in the shop 'til it gets fixed ,with outboard pedals you have no such worries.

In my experienceI have found that using outboard effects is much less complicated than having to program the internal effects of an all frills amp with a built in effects chain but then again once you have your effects installed and programmed the way you like they're there until you decide to scrub them.

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'65 Strat,65 Mustang,65 Jaguar,4 more Strats,3 vintage Vox guitars,5 Vox amps,'69 Bassman with a '68 2-15 Bassman cab,36 guitars total-15asst'd amps total,2 vintage '60s Hammond organs & a myriad of effects-with a few rare vintage ones.

Hi JP and friends!
IMHO, these new amps with digital fx onboard are to be avoided.
The more things a box does, it is likely to do them poorly.
Not to mention that many of these units will malfunction within the first few months.
I think the gain channel on your amp will beat any pedal hands down.

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FIGHT!

Can't say that I agree much with this post. For one thing it sounds like a blanket dismissal of the new effects amps without having used one (and I don't mean playing one at GC for a few minutes). "The more things a box does, it is likely to do them poorly." I find this statement to be completely erroneous. Today's modeling amps can do incredible things and many can deliver great multiple effects, all of which are tweakable on the fly. As far as "malfunctioning within the first few months," from what I have read here in this Forum, that's no more a problem for effects amps than it is for modern tube amps. The times being what they are, just about any amp you choose to buy could be a dreaded lemon.

I own dozens of different amps, ranging from vintage Fender to modern Fender Mustangs and Fender tube re-issues. I own a wide range of solid-state and tube amps including amps from Crate, VOX, Peavey, Traynor, Kustom (awesome 50-watt Defender tube), Mosrite, Bugera and Marshall. There is something to be said for ALL of them, but now-a-days, when I hit the stage, I'm usually taking a good wattage amp with built-in effects - I've lost my love of hauling all my pedals, cables and power supplies. And truth be told - the average bar goer these days can't begin to hear or appreciate the difference... and neither can a lot of other guitar players.

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Dennis in CR
Rockin' since 1963

The only built in effect I miss from any amp is the reverb. In my bedroom upstairs I play through a Gemini VI and it has great reverb, better that I could find through a pedal. In the basement I have a Bandmaster, no reverb built-in so I needed to add a spring tank. Other effects like OD I like them to come from pushing the amp or through pedals.

Dennis!
This is a cool discussion and I hope we get lots of input!
You have more amps and experience than I do.
I sold my Hot Rod deluxe and other stuff to aquire a Custom Shop guitar. So for the time being I use an obnoxious Vox 10 watt.
I only perform live as a classical guitarist.
So I appreciate your telling us that amps with onboard digital fx are dependable.
Perhaps we can get to know which ones have got it down and which ones are just first generation "slap-it-all-together´n´get it out the door".

I am a bit of a purist, and I don´t have a smart phone.
I have had bad luck with gadgets quitting in front of a client.
My preference would be to keep amplification components separate from signal processing. Just the different voltage circuitry involved makes me doubtful. Makes me wonder if these new amps are made to last as long.

I know cars talk these days, and your wrist watch will tell how many miles you jogged, so maybe soon guitar amps will let you order a pizza online.
I´ll seat on the fence and watch, perhaps the Blues Jr I want for my kid I should get for myself, and let him choose what he needs.
cheers, Mike.

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FIGHT!

Very cool shimmilou, you're right, the third option that you mentioned is a very good one with the "right" tube amp. A small wattage tube amp being pushed hard in a club setting can deliver a wide array of clean & overdriven tones all through the artistic use of the guitar volume, finger tips, & pick attack.

I must say, You're point & preferred method are probably my favorite as well. However, I'm really enjoying the wide response of different players takes on the subject.

In particular, I'm focusing solely on Overdrive & distortion. I will say that I like my delay & vibe effects to come from pedals. Having said that, I'm likely to always have some type of pedals at my feet whether I'm using preamp tubes or pedals for distortion & overdrive.

I'm with you on the 3rd option of real "clipped" power tube overdrive being the sweetest to play with.

I'm still undecided on the pre-amp tube gain vs pedals subject though.

I know there are boutique pedals that are very articulate & sweet sounding, but I'm not sure if any are as clear sounding as the overdrive or distortion coming through the cascading gain stages of a tube preamp.

I agree with CRGuitarman about hybrid amps.It is wrong to dismiss them all in one fell swoop as some of them have incredible models and effects.The Vox Vavetronix and AD series comes to my mind right away.

A have the Vox AD120 VTH and the on-board effects are dead ringers for those that they are supposed to emulate-not just close but dead on.The modulation effects like Univibe and Leslie are just like their analogue counter parts even speeding up and ramping down gradually like the real McCoys and speaking of McCoys the Wah setting is the closest I've heard or used to the Actual Vox Clyde McCoy pedal- which I own -when using the optional VC-12 foot controller.

As time and technology move forward so does the quality and performance of electronic hardware for musicians and the fine line between digital and analogue gets smaller every day.

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'65 Strat,65 Mustang,65 Jaguar,4 more Strats,3 vintage Vox guitars,5 Vox amps,'69 Bassman with a '68 2-15 Bassman cab,36 guitars total-15asst'd amps total,2 vintage '60s Hammond organs & a myriad of effects-with a few rare vintage ones.