Gibson Raid

apostolic · **Joined:** Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:02 pm **Posts:** 44

i am assuming woods grown in the usa are not covered under the Lacey act?
Will ebony and rose wood grow here??
get you some seeds and call Gibson!

my understanding is that the wood from india is cleared thru their customs and the paperwork has to be correct on their end for that to happen.
Our customs clears it in,if there was a problem why didn't it get caught at customs on either side.

The potential for guitar sellers being it stores or individuals to possibly be held libel for the Lacey act is kinda crazy.
according to the Gibson ceo that is where this could be heading.

Something to think about.

Rebelsoul · **Posted:** Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:17 pm

FenderGuy1 wrote:

why would the Feds raid Gibson since mahogany is a endangered wood species? I use alder all the time for my custom bodies i make since i know how to make guitar bodies. but why would they? mahogany is a beautiful wood. My local music store has a acoustic with the mahogany back and sides

You make custom guitar bodies?,aren't you 13 years old?
let's see some pics.

dharma47 · **Posted:** Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:07 pm

53magnatone wrote:

As a woodworker, I can see both sides, however, if the feds went in and closed up shop it wasn't without prior warning. This issue goes back quite a long time, it is not all of a sudden.
Question really is when was this issue addressed within Gibson and was it dismissed or was it sent thru the corporate channels.
Now as far as the employee's being out of work...That is a two edge sword, they also have a responsibility in the outcome....You don't work in a guitar building industry without over time being aware of the depletion of certain materials due to excessive un-renewable harvesting methods. That in itself should always have been a concern of everyone employed at Gibson. Not voicing concern at the very least makes one part of the problem not part of seeking a solution.
An Unrefutable fact is that we ( the world ) are depleting our natural rescources faster then natural replenishment can keep up.
To digress a bit, in my industry ( residential/renovation ) we as builders were part of the problem in this current housing morass. We built them cheaply, with no concern for building a home rather than a house. There is a distinctive definition between those two words. The oversupply of unsold new ( meaning built but never occupied ) house's illustrates the point that a speculative piggy bank does not make a very accomodable home. It is just a source of increased revenues....
So the same applies to Gibson...If the focus is on generating revenues at the expense of all else, then the supply of materials or more specifically "Where" that supply originates becomes irrelevant when the bottom line is concerned. Very short term goal which eventually results in long term decline to possible if not probable exterior causes ( like the Feds showing up ).

I'm awaiting to see where this leads, but it illustrates an all too common trait. We know something is not right, nevertheless, we wait until what was once an easily resolved problem, has now reached critical mass and the resulting effect is a devastating scenario. ( personal leverage anyone...??? :shock:

).

Once a government agency steps in, it is never a surgical procedure. It is always a wide sweeping measure and the collateral damage is widespread.
This big stone that was thrown in the middle of the pond will affect everyone.

Very well put and I agree whole-heartedly. This issue started back in the early seventies. I remember reading in issues of Guitar Player, American Woodworker, and a few Luthier's periodicals, about the rapid depletion of certain of the tonewoods and how Japan was buying up everything they could and sinking it in water to preserve it. The problem was no-one was replanting these kinds of wood because the growing time before it would be harvestable was deemed too long. Buyers for Martin at the time were even suggesting it was time to start recycling and reclaiming used rosewood from furniture ect. as back then indian rosewood chests and tables were cheap and plentiful. :wink:

FenderGuy1 · **Joined:** Tue May 31, 2011 2:39 am **Posts:** 342

Rebelsoul wrote:

FenderGuy1 wrote:

why would the Feds raid Gibson since mahogany is a endangered wood species? I use alder all the time for my custom bodies i make since i know how to make guitar bodies. but why would they? mahogany is a beautiful wood. My local music store has a acoustic with the mahogany back and sides

You make custom guitar bodies?,aren't you 13 years old?
let's see some pics.

my friend has my router and my wood but ill get a pic of one i made lemme fix the camera first

FenderGuy1 · **Joined:** Tue May 31, 2011 2:39 am **Posts:** 342

Heres a strat style that i did for myself. the neck is custom made by me

Ceri · **Posted:** Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:35 am

dharma47 wrote:

The problem was no-one was replanting these kinds of wood because the growing time before it would be harvestable was deemed too long.

Matter o' fact, I have friends who live in Barbados (my wife's accountant lives there and works from home - ah, the wonders of the internet age!) and tell me that as banana production in the Caribbean has become uneconomic in the face of competition from South America plantation owners have been replacing fruit with stands of tropical hardwood such as teak and mahogany. It is early days and the "first cut" crop will not arrive for another 70-80 years or so, but it means that in the meantime the land already has enhanced capital value which can be sold or mortgaged, and that is what makes it worth someone's while doing it when they won't live to see the harvest.

Humanity just has to learn to treat trees as a cyclical crop, rather than a one-time resource. They've been doing that in some parts of the world for centuries: the habit has to spread.

Cheers - C

shimmilou · **Posted:** Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:56 am

I hope that they don't outlaw morning wood, that's my favorite of all of the woods. It can cause a deep, warm, guttural tone/moan (talk about woman tone

). Yes, we should all plant more wood, ...err, trees. :mrgreen:

Screamin' Armadillo · **Posted:** Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:14 am

FenderGuy1 wrote:

Heres a strat style that i did for myself. the neck is custom made by me

C'mon, kid, we've gone through this crap before. Don't try it again. Just let it go.

Ceri · **Posted:** Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:50 am

shimmilou wrote:

I hope that they don't outlaw morning wood, that's my favorite of all of the woods. It can cause a deep, warm, guttural tone/moan (talk about woman tone

). Yes, we should all plant more wood, ...err, trees. :mrgreen:

Q. What's pink and hard in the morning?

A. The Financial Times crossword puzzle.

(...Why, what did you think...?)

Cheers - C

somebizarredude · **Posted:** Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:55 am

oh lord

lol

jeebus · **Joined:** Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:35 pm **Posts:** 1296

really? really? just another waste of tax money. big waste in my opinion.

Blertles · **Posted:** Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:54 pm

I think before too much critisism is made, I think we need to look at the big picture.

What the whole affair is about is an international environmental agreement that states that the certified wood can only be worked on in it's country of origin, and not offshore. It's called the Lacey Agreement. The thing is, I find it hard to believe the wood wouldnt be. Binding, radiused, frets, inlays etc.. are done at the factory and this is why they are being raided.

Bearing in mind, people think that its the federal govt that is behind it, and so they should. The play field must be fair and level, and if they are guilty then it is the justice dept that will prosecute. If they arent guilty of any wrong doing, then really it's business as usual. However, there is great suspicion and the feds will have good reason behind the raids- due to their stance and when they build a case, statements are few and far between.

Let's look at the situation however- the last press statement on Youtube from the CEO of Gibson... notice how there werent any lawyers present? notice how he read notes of a piece of paper that really had no backing, not even legally? Notice the lack of confidence and the fear he instilled onto customers and distributers? Im not making any assumptions or judgements here, but really- you have to wonder!. :idea:

But I would say- they are guilty due to the simple fact that they could possibly well have a whistle blower in the factory and the lack of court cases, no statements from any solicitors and unprofessional public statements that would sure to make share prices tumble and workers to look for employment elsewhere... My money is that Gibson is about to get a big shakedown, and it will start with the man at the top himself.

It's not about the Govt wanting to shutdown USA jobs, not at all. It's about policing a law and prosecuting those who offend, and investigating those who are under suspicion. The people of Gibson have every right to job secuirty. It is the CEOs job to ensure that he does not break the law with regard to exotic wood use. If the raids and case deems succesful, then count Gibson they will be the first of many if there are any other manufacturers that offend.

I have all my confidence in Fender that they do play by the rule book and take the environment close to heart. We all know they do.

super kud · **Posted:** Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:51 pm

FenderGuy1 wrote:

Heres a strat style that i did for myself. the neck is custom made by me

THATS IT!!!!!!

ITS TIME TO PUSH "THE BUTTON"!!!!!!!!!!!! :twisted:

Screamin' Armadillo · **Posted:** Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:46 pm

FenderGuy1 wrote:

Heres a strat style that i did for myself. the neck is custom made by me

It's time to get my favorite word out, dust it off and plaster it proudly across this post.

Ahem...

JACKASSERY!

...we now return you to your normally scheduled Forum.

mike07502 · **Joined:** Sat Aug 20, 2011 3:47 pm **Posts:** 748

super kid wrote:

THATS IT!!!!!!

ITS TIME TO PUSH "THE BUTTON"!!!!!!!!!!!! :twisted:

Does that mean he is going to un-friend you? Oh, no!
Man I´m a sucker for this kind of posts!

Keep on truckin´!

	Page 2 of 4	[ 51 posts ]	Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next
Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next

	Page 2 of 4	[ 51 posts ]	Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next
Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next

Andorra	EN	ES	FR
Belgium	EN	DE	FR
Croatia	EN
Czech Republic	EN
Estonia	EN
France	EN	FR
Germany	EN	DE
Italy	EN	IT
Latvia	EN
Lithuania	EN
Malta	EN
Netherlands	EN
Poland	EN
Romania	EN
Slovakia	EN
Sweden	EN
United Kingdom	EN

Austria	EN	DE
Bulgaria	EN
Cyprus	EN
Denmark	EN
Finland	EN
Greece	EN
Hungary	EN
Ireland	EN
Liechtenstein	EN	DE
Luxembourg	EN	DE	FR
Monaco	EN	FR
Norway	EN
Portugal	EN
Slovenia	EN
Spain	EN	ES
Switzerland	EN	DE	FR	IT

Mod Shop

Custom Shop

Gibson Raid

Who is online