Rhumba, you may well be right but here's my take. We are just at the beginning of using instant messaging in many forms. Now for the first time ever, people can communicate silently, privately and immediately. That means that a giant mob can be formed quickly - everyone has a phone and everyone has a phone list. And of course the people who are the most adept at this technology are, for the most part, young (men apparently), and especially when combined with alcohol, have been know to make some pretty bad decisions. I'm not quite up to thinking there's that much organization behind it. It could be happening (mostly) spontaneously.

Because it's all new, we don't know how to deal with it. There has been no training. There is no manual.
My son, who I love dearly, was in elementary school when he texted something naughty about a teacher in a popular (unnamed) forum. Well you should have seen it! There were phone calls and emails and enough anguish and overreaction to last a lifetime.
We did the same thing when we were kids only it was in person, on the playground or whatever. Interestin times indeed!

I dunno. Why not block all the appropriate radio waves within a certain distance around a known crowd gathering area? Don't know the logistics in that. Might have been watching too much TV. See how well planned and cohesive a riot would be then?

Peace, Grildlok

Me too...30.06,5.56,and 7.62 FMJ....years of hanging on survival forums made me aware of what I needed to do,I just don't live where I would like to.
I'm sure ol' Reb is on some interesting lists.
oh btw gridlok...ever wonder why your phone goes dead at times? don't underestimate blocking of RF waves.

I always hear the sounds of a tape recorder starting up and the clink of coffee cups on mine.



Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY

The Arjay files.
Seriously...what do the law abiding folks in London own to defend themselves with?

A deftly-thrown mutton chop?



Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY

Maybe they will chime in,I think knives were outlawed over there not too long ago.....hell, a mob might overrun my perimeter,but lots are going to buy the farm in doing so....don't make an old man mad,he will just kill you.

You're right, thanks for mentioning: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=12

Less than Spain, Hungary, France ...

A question about the education system: is it possible to re-enter it? Let's assume you haven't done all your school and now you're sitting on the street. Is it possible to get back? Can you have further education as an adult?

Cheers

David

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"Humans think they are smarter than dolphins because we build cars and buildings and start wars etc...and all that dolphins do is swim in the water, eat fish and play around. Dolphins believe that they are smarter for exactly the same reasons."

Good night for London but not so good for us elsewhere. 3 people killed in Birmingham in a hit and run, apparently just walked out of their Mosque, they were out to protect it from the gangs. Then large groups formed at the hospital that was blocked off the riot police.

3 police stations attacked in Nottingham.

Trouble in Gloucester.

Bad times.



Well the 15 year olds now will not be able to leave it until 18, you can go back as an adult but it'll cost you.

Hmm. Well, OK; since you ask. But you're not going to like it... (haha - I expect you knew that, didn't you? ).

I trust after years on this Forum by now you know that I am a big friend to the United States, I visit quite often and find very much indeed to like and admire about Americans and their country. I’ve said so, often. So hopefully I can say without it being taken for snootiness that the exception to that is your amazing culture of threat and violence. No doubt it seems outrageous for me to say that when my own streets are in turmoil, doesn’t it? However…

Something that strikes me strongly and is in such contrast to all the other excellent things about the American character is the way so many people habitually perceive their fellow humans as a potential threat. Regardless of background, upbringing or where they live; people are fixated on the idea that others might attack them, whether it's foreign countries far away, their own government, strangers or their next door neighbors. In cars, walking in the street, at night in their own homes; people obsess over a perceived need to defend themselves. It seems so normal to them they don't even notice it - yet it is unique amongst all the 40-odd countries I've visited. South Africa would be the closest, and it's not very close.

Be clear, I have travelled widely in the US and I do understand that it is very different in different places. Yet right here on this guitar forum (guitar forum, for goodness sake) I've lost count of the times I've seen Americans talk about needing to arm themselves to the teeth against unnamed potential attack. I'd suggest that mindset is why you spend so bogglingly much on your military (more than almost all other countries in the world put together), why you possess more personal weaponary than humans, why in some places children going to school have to be searched for arms, and why the message of the majority of Hollywood movies could be summed up as; "get smart, get a gun".

I haven't overlooked the posts of Americans on this thread immediately wanting a massive armed response to street disorder, and I haven't missed the flavor of the previous few comments. No doubt you think you are teaching us innocent Britons a lesson about reality - but you are not.

As you are well aware, in the UK we have extremely tight gun control laws and pretty tight laws on carrying knives, too. In practice, apart from shotguns in restricted situations in the countryside, nobody is allowed to own guns - even our Olympic shooting team has to go abroad to train. Our police are unarmed too: after 9/11 we reluctantly started having a few visibly armed police at airports but till then I’d literally never in my life set eyes on a gun in my own country. Of course, they exist and villains can get their hands on them if they try. Nevertheless, their use is still very low.

We are in no way a higher grade of humanity, no less inclined to violence and murder than anyone else. But we have a heck of a lot less violent crime than most other countries, especially yours, and we want to keep it that way.

I hate to resort to Wikipedia but I'm finding it astonishingly hard to dig up impartial national gun violence statistics for the US. So with a hefty dose of Wiki-Salt, here are some international data:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence

If those numbers are approximately right (and from the source I suspect they are) you are per head of population 24.75 times more likely to be shot dead in the US than the UK. Not twice as likely, or three times, or four - but nearly 25 times more likely to die in front of a gun. In light of that I'm not very interested in someone's "constitutional right" to run around with guns: I think the right of all of us not to get shot dead is more important. To me that's the end of the argument right there.

If you feel that makes you tough and us sissy - go right ahead. I'm fine with it.

These riots are the worst in our country for 200 years - and yet they are still tame by international standards. I heard a French journalist this morning saying our riots are not even making the headlines in France - because this stuff is so normal there.

Though the pictures you have seen are bad you have not seen the police using weapons, you have not seen batton charges, or water cannon, or tear gas and you have not seen the police beating people with sticks - and the rate of injury and death has been amazingly low. One man was shot through a car window on Monday and last night someone drove his car into a crowd and killed three people. Apart from that a few dozen police have been treated for cuts and bruises. And however grotesque the behavior of the rioters they have been using bricks and sticks, not guns and knives.

So how to respond? To be fair to our Prime Minister, David Cameron (and Lord knows I don't want to be), he has shown leadership in resisting calls for water cannon, rubber bullets and putting the army on the street. In London the situation has been brought under control with good old fashioned British policing of a measured and restrained nature, and in other cities I hope that will happen shortly.

It has been far from ideal, but it is a whole lot less bad than what we see in some other countries. It is painful to watch but the aftermath of our "softly-softly" approach is far less traumatic.

What I expect you haven't seen TV pictures of is the morning after the night before, when hundreds of ordinary citizens have turned out in our damaged streets to volunteer to clear the mess and get things back to normal. People with no personal stake have taken the day off work to join in and help: that's our spirit at its best. We want to stand together and show that rioting does not represent most of us. Where I live we had riots two nights ago: this morning I took a walk down the high street and it has all been tidied up, windows replaced, shops restocked and open - I even saw Rolexes and Omegas back in the window of the jewellery store. You wouldn't know anything had happened.

And that's my hope. We must be calm and civilised and not let the behavior of the few change the fabric of life for the rest of us. Rioting is in big part about people using the cover of the mob to act out their destructive violent fantasies. We mustn't let ourselves be lured into responding in kind.

To me the most impressive thing about the recent terrible event in Norway was that even before the shooter was caught their Prime Minister said the response to an attack on their democracy would be... more democracy. And their people have lived up to that nobly. We need to follow suit: an attack on our calm, moderate, decent way of life should be met with more calmness, moderation and decency.

And then some serious thought about underlying causes.

Cheers - C

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Well said Ceri. Pretty much the same way we handled our recent hockey riot. Our police did an amazing job of not overreacting when a few people were getting far too emotional. Thank God we don't have guns or things would have gotten way worse.

Stay calm, and carry on!

Peace, Gridlok

That was wonderful Ceri, thank you. When I was in your country many years ago we (Americans) all thought one of the coolest things about it was the police didn't carry guns, that you had it under control. You still do.

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you can save the world with your guitar one love song at a time it's just better, more fun, easier with a fender solid body electric guitar or electric bass guitar.

Yeah,we are a violent bunch aren't we...we love to fight...I guess it's just in our nature.
Don't expect a long response from me about the gun issue,I settled it in my mind long ago,right or wrong...you can live without them and feel relatively safe in the hopes of not ending up on the wrong end of one..I'll keep mine and see what happens.

I would say in response, that up until my great-grandfathers time, people were fighting out of their homes in the US. Not so long ago. Two people ago.

On the other hand, I agree. Things are very excessive now. Peace bro.

...Though when all's said and done this looting has GOT to stop. It's getting out of hand:



And a slightly more positive image of my town. This is one of the worst hit rioting spots, the next morning (Clapham Junction, for those as know it):



Aaaahhh - ain't they cute? Watch out: we'll have turned that into an Olympic sport by next year...

Cheers all - C

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Yeah!! We got to arrest that pigeon fast Ceri, I reckon I've seen it walk into that shop a dozen times now and lift something.
We had the brushes out in Manchester too. Love that Bulldog spirit.


oops

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