Hopefully some of you seasoned vets can help me out. My band has started recording our practices and I'm realizing that while I think I sound good when I'm actually playing, when I hear the recording I sound very "honky". When I listen to a recrding of only myself it sounds good but throw in drums, bass and another player and there's the honk. I've tried playing with the EQ on the amp, on the pedals, etc but with minimal luck. It sounds a little better when I bypass the amp (Vibroverb) and plug directly into the recorder. Thoughts, opinions?

_________________
Tune Low, Play Hard & Floor it!

move the mic away from the cone and more to the side of the speaker.

_________________
I LIKE PIE!!!!!

IF I DO SOMETHING STUPID,DON'T SAY A WORD...

I've already tried that. Doesn't matter if it's 6 inches or 6 feet.

_________________
Tune Low, Play Hard & Floor it!

Well...Super Kid stole my first idea, but apparently that wasn't the issue. When I eq my amp for recording, I tilt it back and sit about 5-6 feet in front of it. Then I set the eq to what sounds good sitting right in front of it like that and then I record. I find that putting the mids a little lower than normal, and backing off on the gain a bit typically makes my recorded sound sound a little closer to what I'm hearing in my head.
I hope that made sense and helps at least a little.

_________________
Check out my new FB music page!

https://www.facebook.com/TheDevilandMe.Music

What mic are you using? Different mics have different frequency responses.

Where are you placing the mic in relation to the diameter of the cone? I find the best placement is somewhere around 2/3 to 3/4 of the way from the edge of the disk to the surround, ie: closer to the center disc but not right in the center of the disc and pointed directly at the cone rather than tilted.

How loud is your amp set?

How is the EQ set on the recorder?

Are you using any FX on the recorder? Does it have any onboard FX?

How about a mixer? Are you running the mic into a mixer and then sending the signal from there into the recorder? Any onboard FX on the mixer?

_________________

Just think of how awesome a guitar player you could have been by now if you had only spent the last 10 years practicing instead of obsessing over pickups and roasted maple necks.

Another statement on mic placement after reading BMW-KTM's post. I like to mic my amp with the mic right near the edge of the cone, but angle in toward the center probably 20-30 degrees. And I agree with BMW that trying different mics is important. A condenser mic with a very flat freq. response has been the best for me. Once again, good luck.

_________________
Check out my new FB music page!

https://www.facebook.com/TheDevilandMe.Music

I use a Shure SM57.



That's pretty much what I do, not sure how far but it is off center.



Around 3... that's pretty much all I need with a Vibroverb.



When recording I keep the Highs and Lows at the mid point. The recorder is a Tascam DP-02CF



There are no on board effects but it does have a loop. Actually I jumper the loop.



No mixer. I just mic the amp directly into the recorder.

I don't think it's a recording issue because when I really pay attention to it, my recorded tone sounds like the way I hear it. It's more of how my tone fits in with the rest of the band.

_________________
Tune Low, Play Hard & Floor it!

Before I make a suggestion, let me ask you... What kind of EQ is available to you on each channel when you're mixing down?

_________________
Jim Bordner
Gravity Music - www.gravitymusic.com
Composer, producer, Egnater Artist

Gotcha. So it turns out there's really no problem with the sound of the recording it's just that you've begun to re-evaluate your sound. You're in good company. I don't think anyone I know has been pleased with the results the first time they heard themselves recorded. For me it's my voice. In my head I sound deep but when I hear myself singing on a recording I think, "Who's that guy with the high voice?"

Hearing yourself recorded is always a humbling experience.

_________________

Just think of how awesome a guitar player you could have been by now if you had only spent the last 10 years practicing instead of obsessing over pickups and roasted maple necks.

How's your meter? I used to play with a drummer who was constantly speeding up but he insisted he had perfect meter, that is until we recorded some rehearsals. Then he could hear it.

_________________

Just think of how awesome a guitar player you could have been by now if you had only spent the last 10 years practicing instead of obsessing over pickups and roasted maple necks.

Hi VB: I'm a bit surprised at all the talk of mic placement on this thread. Sure, that's something to play with, but the issue here is how tones present in your solo guitar sound are getting lost against the rest of the band.

When you're playing your ears are picking out the sound of your guitar against the other instruments (like concentrating on the voice of someone who's talking to you against the noise of a crowded room). But when you listen to the playback you are hearing what it actually sounded like, and discovering that your lows are lost against the bass guitar and your highs are getting diluted by the cymbals and snare. The result is your "honky" sound.

It's an EQ issue, pure and simple. Play with your low, mid and high knobs till you find settings that work in the total mix, rather than when playing on your own. I expect you've spent countless hours tweaking your tone to perfection in the laboratory of solo practice. And whadayaknow, now you're discovering that it works a whole different way in a band context.

A couple of good tips: with EQ it is always better to lose what you have too much of, rather than boost what's lacking. In other words, always try to cut rather than boost. Also: I have no idea what your pedal setup is like, but nearly always when people bring their rig to a recording context they discover they've way over-cooked their FX. I wouldn't be at all surprised if your sound benefited from turning all your pedal levels down, and quite probably losing some of the amp gain too.

In other words, all that tweaking you've done getting your tone just right when listening to your own playing through the amp - you now have to do that all over again but this time listening to the playback against the rest of the band.

Don't worry: it's a journey we all have to take. You'll get there!

Cheers - C

_________________

Thanks Ceri, I guess I'll be playing with the EQ's a bit. I'm a bit surprised at how different it is between my perceived tone and what actually comes out. Typically I use my Vibroverb with the Treb and Bass on 6 (there is no Mids adjustment) and I only use one pedal at a time, overdrive, unless I use a delay. I've found that even by dropping the VV Bass down to 3 and putting the over drive tone very high, around 3 o'clock, the recorded sound is still kinda dark. This applies to the basic tracks themselves but from experience I know the final master tracks come out sounding more natural. True be told the other guitar player says it sounds great, maybe I'm thinking about it too much.

_________________
Tune Low, Play Hard & Floor it!

Pardon me for chiming in so late. I am pretty sure that a Vibroverb is a really good guitar amp, open backed cab with a pair of 10 inch guitar speakers. There is at least part of your problem. You need to try a 12 inch speaker. Patch into a 1x12 cab and see if that helps.

^As far as we are all aware he is playing guitar through a guitar amp, not bass through a guitar!

Another thing you can do to prevent being lost in the mix is to turn down (or off) the reverb on your amp (if you use any), and then use the reverb on either your recorder or the program that you use to mix down.

Are you using a brown tolex ('63) Vibroverb or a blackface ('64) Vibroverb? Is it an original or reissue? (I have a '63 Reissue with the 2x10 speaker configuration...love it!).

As far as "honky" tone, I think Ceri is right--possibly some of your other frequencies are being phase cancelled by the bass, keys or other guitar (and even the drums in some cases) and all you're hearing is some of the "less desired" frequencies that wouldn't be noticed otherwise.

I had that issue with another guitarist once; he had "his tone" and refused to change anything on his amp, pedals, etc. But some of the frequencies he was pushing would cancel out with the bassist (bassist played up on the neck a lot on a Danelectro DC bass, had a somewhat high & bright tone, phasing out the low end of the guitarist in question), so the other guitarist intermittently couldn't hear himself on our recordings. Accordingly, he would turn up his channels on the mixdown--he still couldn't hear himself, but it would clip like Hades and make for a bad mix.

I willingly changed my EQ (played a different guitar, took out a little of the bottom end and emphasized mids and highs) and was heard just fine (and still had "my tone"). That confused the other guitarist, because he thought my tone was cancelling out his tone (he didn't reason this through--that both of our guitars would be lost in the mix) and removed my guitar parts from the songs. Still couldn't hear his parts.

His inability to listen to anybody else and his insistence that I was the issue (amongst a few other issues) led to me leaving the band; their recordings after I left still had mix problems. They had some studio time and he had the same problem, until a producer told him, "I'm gonna have to EQ your guitar parts or you won't be heard..."

The drummer (who left soon afterwards and joined the Screamin' Armadillos) said, "Isn't that what was said by (my name here) earlier?"

_________________
Good Vibes To Y'all!



Screamin' Armadillos
Texas Roadhouse Music
Guitar/Slide Guitar/Harp/Vocals