Norway

cvilleira · **Posted:** Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:16 pm

Bluestube wrote:

Hey Doc!

Saw your message so i thought I should just stop by and tell that I'm ok.
Some of my friends did not make it out alive, some are still missing, but most of the people I knew over there survived.

No one would ever believe that this could happen in little peaceful Norway, such a tragedy.
85 confirmed killed on Utøya, 7 in Oslo. There might be more since some people are still missing.

Also, this was not a terrorist attack from some middle-eastern group.
This was the work of one lonesome right-wing extremist with an intense hate against islam and marxism it seems.

My thoughts are with you Bluestube and your fellow Countrymen. Sadly there is no place exempt from such things these days. We can only try to be prepared for what ever events may happen.

alexander-57 · **Joined:** Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:39 am **Posts:** 337

VERY sad to hear yet another off key note, the so called news is a culprit on it's own for being so quick to be first, and not giveing a dam about being correct about the information they are reporting! we all hear it, and we all take our leads from it, but if what your getting is incorrect, then how can you blame yourself for being incorrect! popaganda is everywhere, misinformation is so common that the word facts! is almost non existant, and do you really think that these reporters give a rats behide about being correct in there reports or what these false reports do to the poeple,s familys and friends who have been tragiclly effected by these horrific events? It's a cryin shame! to all the forum brothers and sisters. :cry:

ZZDoc · **Posted:** Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:25 am

It will be interesting to see what kind of a Forum the Norweigian judicial system gives him. In NYC it would be a simple "How do you plead"? on arraignment day, but this guy wants a public platform to 'explain' himself.

Screamin' Armadillo · **Posted:** Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:03 am

I read that the maximum prison sentence in Norway is 21 years. If that's correct, that monster would be out of prison at age 53. I'm usually against vigilante justice, but if ever there was a reason...

ZZDoc · **Posted:** Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:11 am

Screamin' Armadillo wrote:

I read that the maximum prison sentence in Norway is 21 years. If that's correct, that monster would be out of prison at age 53. I'm usually against vigilante justice, but if ever there was a reason...

You know what.....it's their problem, their kids, their tragic loss. No disrespect intended to Bluestube, but if that judicial standard is true, it may be time for them to wake up to the fact that there are serious issues in the real world which must be confronted and dealt with utterly.

Negative Creep · **Joined:** Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:16 pm **Posts:** 881

Nevin1985 wrote:

I really cannot comprehend how one person can amass such a death toll.... very strange.

Its just like Columbine, we can blame it and try to comprhend and even try to sympathize with the lack of humanity one had and what they must have went through to get to that point of turning to mass murder. But at the end of the day you cant, just, the only way to begin understanding is that there is evil within all of us, but the difference between the "psychopaths" and us is that they choose to act upon it, but still that explanation is lightyears away from what must have been going on eternally in that madmans mind

Tochai · **Posted:** Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:30 am

tyronne wrote:

They did find a 1500 word manifesto purportedly written by the suspect looking to create a European Civil War to drive out a number of groups including the Muslims.

It was actually 1500 pages, it took 9 years, costing 317000 euros and its still readily available online, but I won't post a link to it because I don't want to spread it any further.
Interestingly despite the book's anti-muslim message, he expresses admiration towards Al-Qaeda and their anti-multiculturalism. He also compares his "group" to the Knights Templar, and has been referred to as a fundamentalist christian, but under investigation it was found that he has no link to any established church in Norway.
I think its good that the Norwegian authorities aren't allowing the media into his trial, because that would only serve to give him publicity, contrastingly, when Hitler was on trial for treason the media were allowed into the court, and he was able to express his extreme nationalism to a large audience, which contributed greatly to his popularity.

Screamin' Armadillo wrote:

I read that the maximum prison sentence in Norway is 21 years. If that's correct, that monster would be out of prison at age 53. I'm usually against vigilante justice, but if ever there was a reason...

If they came up with some other charges they could probably give him consecutive sentences. If they found that one of the victims wasn't from Norway, could they have him extradited?

Snowjoe · **Posted:** Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:38 am

Screamin' Armadillo wrote:

I read that the maximum prison sentence in Norway is 21 years. If that's correct, that monster would be out of prison at age 53. I'm usually against vigilante justice, but if ever there was a reason...

This is yet another misinformed piece of information the news teams love to throw around. It's 21 years and if at the end they still pose threat then they can be kept in another 5 years. So you can serve a 26 year term.

Now I still don't think that is long enough in this case, however it annoys me that the news networks just throw around what are basically lies to the general public who rely on them for reliable information.

Screamin' Armadillo · **Posted:** Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:53 am

Snowjoe wrote:

Screamin' Armadillo wrote:

I read that the maximum prison sentence in Norway is 21 years. If that's correct, that monster would be out of prison at age 53. I'm usually against vigilante justice, but if ever there was a reason...

This is yet another misinformed piece of information the news teams love to throw around. It's 21 years and if at the end they still pose threat then they can be kept in another 5 years. So you can serve a 26 year term.

Now I still don't think that is long enough in this case, however it annoys me that the news networks just throw around what are basically lies to the general public who rely on them for reliable information.

Still too short of a prison sentence.
I agree that the media creates more inaccuracies than information. That's why I always qualify every statement with "If this is correct," or "They reported...", because they can't seem to get their heads straight.

In the words of Don Henley, "I just have to look good, I don't have to be clear."

Snowjoe · **Posted:** Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:11 am

Screamin' Armadillo wrote:

Snowjoe wrote:

Screamin' Armadillo wrote:

I read that the maximum prison sentence in Norway is 21 years. If that's correct, that monster would be out of prison at age 53. I'm usually against vigilante justice, but if ever there was a reason...

This is yet another misinformed piece of information the news teams love to throw around. It's 21 years and if at the end they still pose threat then they can be kept in another 5 years. So you can serve a 26 year term.

Now I still don't think that is long enough in this case, however it annoys me that the news networks just throw around what are basically lies to the general public who rely on them for reliable information.

Still too short of a prison sentence.
I agree that the media creates more inaccuracies than information. That's why I always qualify every statement with "If this is correct," or "They reported...", because they can't seem to get their heads straight.

In the words of Don Henley, "I just have to look good, I don't have to be clear."

Which is entirely justified as everyone has to get news from somewhere. I think what gets me the most is not that the news do what they do, it's that so many people believe every word they say 100% and don't bother to look at what other outlets are saying.

Weirdly one of the quickest ways of finding news out is twitter! It was circling on there that it was a white Norwegian speaking man whilst the big news agencies were looking up their al-quaeda links!

Ceri · **Posted:** Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:20 am

Hi people. What a fascinating thread this has been to watch unfold...

ZZDoc wrote:

Misinformation and jumping to conclusions prematurely set aside, it's unfortunate that Islam has been hijacked by a variety of subsets whose agendas and politico-religious philosophies are at variance and, for whom, witnessing the recent hotel assault in Pakistan, this kind of violence is a tool. It has been said of Islam that, in many respects, it is a faith subject to individual interpretation.

Hi Doc: given that Anders Behring Breivik declared himself a "right-wing Christian" on his Twitter and Facebook pages launched a few days before his mass murders, as well as in police reports of his interrogation and in his 1500 page "manifesto"; would you say all of the above about Christianity too?

Tochai wrote:

when Hitler was on trial for treason the media were allowed into the court, and he was able to express his extreme nationalism to a large audience, which contributed greatly to his popularity.

Erm - when would that have been, please, Tochai...?

Snowjoe wrote:

Screamin' Armadillo wrote:

I read that the maximum prison sentence in Norway is 21 years. If that's correct, that monster would be out of prison at age 53. I'm usually against vigilante justice, but if ever there was a reason...

This is yet another misinformed piece of information the news teams love to throw around. It's 21 years and if at the end they still pose threat then they can be kept in another 5 years. So you can serve a 26 year term.

Both of those are incorrect. The BBC are carrying the judge's news conference live as I type: he says that the maximum punitive sentence under Norwegian law is 21 years but that the court can then choose to keep him imprisoned for as long as they think necessary for public safety thereafter, quite probably for the rest of his life.

As far as Norway needing to "wake up to issues in the real world" is concerned, given that their society is considerably freer of violence and other crime than almost any other in the world it may be the rest of us that have lessons to learn from their approach to things.

I was moved by what their Prime Minister, Jens Stoltenberg, said after the bombing of government buildings and even as the murders were continuing before Breivik was apprehended. He said that Norway's response to an attack on its democracy would be... more democracy. I find that mature and heroic and typically Scandinavian.

My respect goes to all Norwegians at this time.

Cheers - C

PS: ooo look, my ten thousandth post. Get a life, Ceri.

ripitup555 · **Posted:** Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:45 am

Ceri wrote:

Hi people. What a fascinating thread this has been to watch unfold...

ZZDoc wrote:

Misinformation and jumping to conclusions prematurely set aside, it's unfortunate that Islam has been hijacked by a variety of subsets whose agendas and politico-religious philosophies are at variance and, for whom, witnessing the recent hotel assault in Pakistan, this kind of violence is a tool. It has been said of Islam that, in many respects, it is a faith subject to individual interpretation.

Hi Doc: given that Anders Behring Breivik declared himself a "right-wing Christian" on his Twitter and Facebook pages launched a few days before his mass murders, as well as in police reports of his interrogation and in his 1500 page "manifesto"; would you say all of the above about Christianity too?

Tochai wrote:

when Hitler was on trial for treason the media were allowed into the court, and he was able to express his extreme nationalism to a large audience, which contributed greatly to his popularity.

Erm - when would that have been, please, Tochai...?

Snowjoe wrote:

Screamin' Armadillo wrote:

I read that the maximum prison sentence in Norway is 21 years. If that's correct, that monster would be out of prison at age 53. I'm usually against vigilante justice, but if ever there was a reason...

This is yet another misinformed piece of information the news teams love to throw around. It's 21 years and if at the end they still pose threat then they can be kept in another 5 years. So you can serve a 26 year term.

Both of those are incorrect. The BBC are carrying the judge's news conference live as I type: he says that the maximum punitive sentence under Norwegian law is 21 years but that the court can then choose to keep him imprisoned for as long as they think necessary for public safety thereafter, quite probably for the rest of his life.

As far as Norway needing to "wake up to issues in the real world" is concerned, given that their society is considerably freer of violence and other crime than almost any other in the world it may be the rest of us that have lessons to learn from their approach to things.

I was moved by what their Prime Minister, Jens Stoltenberg, said after the bombing of government buildings and even as the murders were continuing before Breivik was apprehended. He said that Norway's response to an attack on its democracy would be... more democracy. I find that mature and heroic and typically Scandinavian.

My respect goes to all Norwegians at this time.

Cheers - C

PS: ooo look, my ten thousandth post. Get a life, Ceri.

Think this is what Tochai was referring to Ceri
http://timelines.com/1924/2/26/adolf-hi ... or-treason
ps 10000 post req's a new thread methinks

Snowjoe · **Posted:** Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:45 am

Ceri wrote:

Hi people. What a fascinating thread this has been to watch unfold...

ZZDoc wrote:

Misinformation and jumping to conclusions prematurely set aside, it's unfortunate that Islam has been hijacked by a variety of subsets whose agendas and politico-religious philosophies are at variance and, for whom, witnessing the recent hotel assault in Pakistan, this kind of violence is a tool. It has been said of Islam that, in many respects, it is a faith subject to individual interpretation.

Hi Doc: given that Anders Behring Breivik declared himself a "right-wing Christian" on his Twitter and Facebook pages launched a few days before his mass murders, as well as in police reports of his interrogation and in his 1500 page "manifesto"; would you say all of the above about Christianity too?

Tochai wrote:

when Hitler was on trial for treason the media were allowed into the court, and he was able to express his extreme nationalism to a large audience, which contributed greatly to his popularity.

Erm - when would that have been, please, Tochai...?

Snowjoe wrote:

Screamin' Armadillo wrote:

I read that the maximum prison sentence in Norway is 21 years. If that's correct, that monster would be out of prison at age 53. I'm usually against vigilante justice, but if ever there was a reason...

This is yet another misinformed piece of information the news teams love to throw around. It's 21 years and if at the end they still pose threat then they can be kept in another 5 years. So you can serve a 26 year term.

Both of those are incorrect. The BBC are carrying the judge's news conference live as I type: he says that the maximum punitive sentence under Norwegian law is 21 years but that the court can then choose to keep him imprisoned for as long as they think necessary for public safety thereafter, quite probably for the rest of his life.

As far as Norway needing to "wake up to issues in the real world" is concerned, given that their society is considerably freer of violence and other crime than almost any other in the world it may be the rest of us that have lessons to learn from their approach to things.

I was moved by what their Prime Minister, Jens Stoltenberg, said after the bombing of government buildings and even as the murders were continuing before Breivik was apprehended. He said that Norway's response to an attack on its democracy would be... more democracy. I find that mature and heroic and typically Scandinavian.

My respect goes to all Norwegians at this time.

Cheers - C

PS: ooo look, my ten thousandth post. Get a life, Ceri.

Well I'm very happy to have been proved wrong in this case! Thanks for the info.

Ceri · **Posted:** Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:57 am

ripitup555 wrote:

Think this is what Tochai was referring to Ceri
http://timelines.com/1924/2/26/adolf-hi ... or-treason
ps 10000 post req's a new thread methinks

Hi Rip: I guess what I was gently getting at was that there is a world of difference between the economic and social turmoil of Germany in the 1920s and the very affluent, stable, liberal society of Norway in 2010s.

Today was just a custody hearing and held in camera due to the on-going investigations, not least because of Breivik's claim that there are other cells, true or fantasy as that may turn out to be. So media access is not much of an issue today.

But I do think it is important to hold this man's fundamentalist, anti-foreigner views up to the light as quickly as possible, while people still have an unfogged memory of where they directly lead. Deconstruction and ridicule is the way to deal with that mindset, and then a calm refusal to let extreme behaviours determine how everyone else's lives are lived. I see all of that right now in Norway. More power to their elbows.

Cheers - C

ripitup555 · **Posted:** Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:42 am

Ceri wrote:

ripitup555 wrote:

Think this is what Tochai was referring to Ceri
http://timelines.com/1924/2/26/adolf-hi ... or-treason
ps 10000 post req's a new thread methinks

Hi Rip: I guess what I was gently getting at was that there is a world of difference between the economic and social turmoil of Germany in the 1920s and the very affluent, stable, liberal society of Norway in 2010s.

Today was just a custody hearing and held in camera due to the on-going investigations, not least because of Breivik's claim that there are other cells, true or fantasy as that may turn out to be. So media access is not much of an issue today.

But I do think it is important to hold this man's fundamentalist, anti-foreigner views up to the light as quickly as possible, while people still have an unfogged memory of where they directly lead. Deconstruction and ridicule is the way to deal with that mindset, and then a calm refusal to let extreme behaviours determine how everyone else's lives are lived. I see all of that right now in Norway. More power to their elbows.

Cheers - C

Yeah absolutely Ceri 100%

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