I'm going to push the tube versus solid-state amp debate further here. I'll compare the progress in amplifiers to the progress in digital cameras.

As an old school graphic artist, I was right on the brink of dealing with what was going on with digital photography over a decade ago. However, being a snob I was adamant that digital images will never fully capture the graduations and shading in pictures taken with old school film. That was my argument when high-end digital cameras were taking 2 MP pictures. I can now admit, I was wrong. The quality of digital photographs taken today surpasses any picture developed with film by far.

I was just as stubborn with amplifiers. Until just recently, I was steadfast that nothing will ever replace the warmth and quality of sound of tube amps. What could sound better than either a Fender Twin or a David Bray 50 custom Plexi? Generally, my opinion was that solid-state amps sounded thin and shrieked. Dimebag was the only one that ever could make a solid state sound decent.

That opinion changed when I quickly needed an amp for my acoustic guitar. Without any real shopping around, I bought a Fender DSP Acoustasonic 30 for a small concert. The bass response and the warmth surprised me during the gig. I also got a kick out of the effects.

Because of the DSP in the Acoustasonic, the Mustang III caught my eye. Not only did the Mustang sound warm but also it was 12 amps in one with numerous built in effects boxed as 100 watts. The master volume (attenuator) and speaker-emulated line out could allow for recording at 2 am in the morning. The ultimate test that the Mustang passed was when the guitar volume knob was turned down from a highly distorted setting. The guitar signal went clean. Sure there were shortcomings like the lack of bass out of the speaker and the minimal response of the 3 band EQ. But those shortcomings could be overcome with a either mixing board and analog EQ's or any DAW that accommodates for VST's.

I hate to say it. Tube amps will eventually go the way of tube TV's and radios. The reason they haven't yet is that most musicians are simply artistic snobs who are afraid to venture out of their comfort zone. I know. I am one.

Listen to the clip below that was recorded with a Mustang 3.
http://calminchaos.co.cc/cic-soloforcrazy.mp3

Arjay (resident forum Luddite)

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY

I have tried several modeling and hybrid amps but sadly not Fender yet so I can't pass a comment on them.I have tried the line 6 and Beheringer and neither have really impressed me as being authentic in replicating the tube amp warmth and tonal nuances. Having said that the Marshall and Vox-Vox especially-have great hybrid amps that can nail a lot of their models and effects spot on.

Will hybrid and non-tube amps ever surpass or equal hybrid or non-tube amps in tonal properties and performance?I can't really say but I do know that Vox and Marshall have come very close and if their technology becomes more sophisticated they'll most likely give their tube counterparts a run for their money and from what I've heard of Fender they are progressing in leaps and bounds.

_________________
'65 Strat,65 Mustang,65 Jaguar,4 more Strats,3 vintage Vox guitars,5 Vox amps,'69 Bassman with a '68 2-15 Bassman cab,36 guitars total-15asst'd amps total,2 vintage '60s Hammond organs & a myriad of effects-with a few rare vintage ones.

Let me be the first to say, that I may be one of those artistic snobs. I think tube amps are head and shoulders above the best modeling amps I've heard; so far anyway. I think eventually the technology will be perfected to the point that SS amps will be right there with tubes as far as sound goes, but I'll stick with tubes either way.

_________________
Check out my new FB music page!

https://www.facebook.com/TheDevilandMe.Music

The only tube amp I ever owned was a 64 Silvertone single stack 1-12. for that time and for the money it was pretty cool and would do everything I under stood how to do. But it would not hold a candle to my Peavey or Line 6- both 1-12 and will do anything I want them to. Maby if I Used a modern tube amp for a while I would change my mind. These little gems are only used at home. I have no idea how they might hold up out in the real world. For 3 to $500 they are OK. For spot on retro. sound probably not so good.
----Danny,

Don't get me wrong,my little mustang II sounds great.But the bassman sounds nothing like a real bassman,the marshalls sound nothing like marshalls,the vox sounds nothing like a vox.they all are great sounds,but thay don't sound like the real amp there designed to sound like.they sound like there own amp.

_________________
I LIKE PIE!!!!!

IF I DO SOMETHING STUPID,DON'T SAY A WORD...

modeling amps have thier following. the Vox VT series blows the rest to shame w/o even trying. fender, line 6 and the rest dont even come close to the Vox.
mentioned above was that Dime bag was the only one to make a SS amp sound ok.
yeah, tell that to BB king, eric clapton, and several others.
modeling amps are getting better as far as being modeling amps go.
will they replace tube amps? if so it wont be anytime soon.
why would they want to replace the tube amp? it sells so well and is pretty simple to build?
still, the only head turning modeling amp out there in my opinion is the Vox, everybody else is lacking.

_________________
63supro
"The good thing is in a club situation, most of the patrons are trashed and really can't tell the difference."

Lonnie Mack comes to mind...his Roland amps gave him amazing tone, and they were solid state.

Many Solid State amps sound good, especially for clean tones, but modelling amps being such a relatively new technology will take a long time trying to catch up to tube amps, and I don't think it'll ever happen. The VOX VT is by far the best I've heard, but that one does have a tube preamp right?

_________________
Check out my new FB music page!

https://www.facebook.com/TheDevilandMe.Music

I stand corrected. Lonnie and BB had great sounds too out of their solid-state amps.

I have two digital Fender amps - a Cyber-Champ and a Vibro-Champ XD. Each can produce some good tones and effects. They just don't take pedals like all valves. These days I mostly record at home so I can make either digital or valve amps work for me.

Line 6 HD500 (not pod farm) and Revalver are the best I have found. Line 6 has really stepped up with the HD series and Revalver has sounded great since version 3. I have Pod Farm 2.5 and it is ok but not even close to ones I mentioned above. I have tried a lot of the free stuff as well and with enough tweaking it can sound good too. Still, Line 6 HD and Revalver have tapped into something special. I have not tried the Vox but from what I'm reading it looks like I need to check it out.

_________________
My ability to spell is in direct proportion to the amount of coffee I've had.

Being a professional photographer, digital imaging has destroyed the whole business. The days of great money are gone and everyone looks to get their products shot for close to nothing for the web. Digital quality still can't compare to most medium and large format negatives and trans film which is all I ever shot. The photos today are way too over processed in Photoshop and the field I specialized in, catalog and advertising has been cheapened to the point of no return. People think it's cheap, it isn't. Not on a professional level. The cost of software and hardware is astronomical and there is planned obsolescence. Digital photos look cold and sterile to me. I have to shoot digitally because I have to. I gave up weddings because people expect thousands of photos to be taken at one event.

Modeling amps give me the same feeling. Having played or owned most of the amps they model, I can tell you they're not even close. Are they bad? Not really, they just lack the punch and drive of the real thing. Some are plagued with digital artifacts too. These threads usually turn into huge arguments between tubers and modelers. I say play what makes you happy. Tubes won't go anywhere soon, and film is still around and used by many. As a matter of fact, some of my clients still demand it.

_________________
Life...... It's sexually transmitted and always fatal

I don't know if surpass is the right question. Tube amps and SS amps are definitely two different animals each have their pro's and con's....Modeling amps as I view them try to emulate the pro's of these amps. From what I have sampled some come close to achieving this aim...close meaning similar...not the same as! I have mostly used tube amps most of my life so I probably have a bias towards them...you could call it a comfortable familiarity. I have owned a couple of solid state amps that I liked, one was a Pignose the other was a Roland Jazz Chorus but neither compared to the mid 70's Twin Reverb I used for over 25 yrs. in my opinion. Anyway two years ago I parted with it and bought a DRRI for the usual reasons, easier to pack around and the Twin wasn't getting cranked past 3 much anymore. Then last year I purchased a SCXD for playing at home and I love it, but I don't know if it could be strickly be called a Digital or Modeling amp even if it does have "modeling". I do love some of the approximations on this puppy but in no way do I consider them sounding exactly like the amps they emulate. If I were to make a comparison it would be like listening to a live CD of an artist instead of actually being at the performance in person. Whether modeling amps can reproduce the sound of say a Vox AC30 a Tweed Twin or a 100 watt Marshall stack the experience is different than playing that actual piece of equipment. So will they ever surpass that old comfortable technology (for me ) no. They might create a different kind of comfort in the future based on ease of use or my laziness who knows. (just my opinion)

_________________
Common sense and a sense of humor are the same thing, moving at different speeds. A sense of humor is just common sense, dancin'

I'll hang with my Marshall half stack and 65 Fender Bassman............

_________________
The blues ain't nothin but a good man feelin bad.

i dont think anybody would expect a pignose to compare to a twin.

_________________
63supro
"The good thing is in a club situation, most of the patrons are trashed and really can't tell the difference."