How many of you are still searching for the right tone? You know that certain tone... You can hear it in your head. You know exactly how it's supposed to sound, but yet you try in vain to duplicate it.

The sound I hear in my head:
A punchy overdriven Strat tone with a touch of reverb or mild delay.
A well balanced tone that is universal (country rock, blues, rock, rockabilly, etc...)
A nice respectable tone. No vicious death metal, doom metal, wicked distortion.
(Combine these two distinct tones)
1) Eric Clapton's bluesy midrange Strat tone on all his records.
2) Randy Bachman's bright classic rock Strat tone on all those old BTO records.

I've been messing with my old Digitech RP7 processor (remember the one with the 12AX7 preamp tube inside?). I have been trying to make it work with my new 2011 Fender Frontman 65R.

I like the chorus, but don't like the distortion setting.
I like the overdrive, but don't like the delay setting.
I like the slapback echo/delay, but can't find the right EQ setting.
Aaaaaaargh....

1995 MIM Fender Strat, maple neck, sunburst finish
Volume: 8, Tone/Neck: 8, Tone/Bridge: 7
Note: My Strat is sort of a "diamond in the rough" as the saying goes. As was told to me by a fantastic guitar tech in town... Somebody at Fender in Ensenada, Mexico goofed during assembly, or somebody in Corona, CA goofed in shipping. My Strat is MIM but yet has the American Standard Delta-Tone pickups/circuitry from back in 1995, and slipped through quality control!

2011 Fender Frontman 65R
Clean - Volume: 2, Treble: 3, Bass: 6 (Reverb: 3) <--- shimmering clean sound!
Drive (w/o Mid Contour) - Drive: 7, Volume: 2, Treble: 5, Mid: 4, Bass: 6 (Reverb: 3) <--- sounds kind of cheesy...
Drive (with Mid Contour) - Same as above, but kind of reminds me of Randy Rhoads on Ozzy's "Crazy Train".

Long story short... I can hear a combination of Eric Clapton and Randy Bachman in my head. A nice subtle, but punchy, overdriven Strat tone. Any ideas how I can accurately find this tone from a Fender Frontman 65R solid state amp?

That's what I pretty much already knew... But you see (as an older guy...) my daughter works at a music store and gets great deals and employee discounts. She bought me the Frontman 65R on a closeout sale + her discount for a steal! It was a combination belated birthday present / early father's day present. It sounds beautiful when played clean, but is VERY LOUD for 65 watts!

It replaces my old mid 80's, Fender Super 60 tube amp (60 watt, 1x12, red knob, pure tube amp). Last year I had a case of "rectalcranialinversion" and sold it, since I no longer played in a weekend bar band. I've been kicking myself ever since... All this time, I was just playing through my Digitech RP7 with headphones, which kind of sounded good, because I could tweak this or tweak that, enable this or that type of cabinet, etc...

I have heard great things about the Fulltone OCD pedal, and want to see if it can make my Frontman 65 sound a little more beefy with a nice overdriven tone.

I look at solid state amps the same way as a PA system. You can get a really nice, pure, clean, clear sound out of them (and that's not a terrible thing, if you're going for that tone) but you're not gonna get the warmth of an overdriven tube amp.

Having said that, the only thing that I can think of that might help you is a preamp/overdrive pedal that has a tube in it. It might allow a warm and punchy signal to go into your "PA" and make things a lot closer to your desired sound.

That's cool that your daughter bought the Frontman 65 for you, and that makes it (sentimentally) valuable, but I think you need to either look for another amp or at least a tube-driven preamp.

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Good Vibes To Y'all!



Screamin' Armadillos
Texas Roadhouse Music
Guitar/Slide Guitar/Harp/Vocals

nope the OCD wont get you any closer. now, if you had a tube amp, the OCD would be your best choice.

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63supro
"The good thing is in a club situation, most of the patrons are trashed and really can't tell the difference."

+1000!!!

Period, end of story, nothing follows.



Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY

Thanks...

At least the old Digitech RP7 has a 12AX7 preamp tube built into it, so I can get some very very nice beefy, well balanced, tones out of it. But... I just have to fiddle with it some more and try to make the Frontman 65R "play nice" with it.

Remember this multi-effects pedal from back in the day? (photo cut/paste off the internet) You can see the cooling vent right in front of the expression pedal for the 12AX7 preamp tube.


Digitech RP7 Preamp Values (retyped, per my owners manual):
Tube Tone
CLN1 - a warm clean tube tone. <---sounds muddy (never used).
CLN2 - a bright clean tube tone. <---sounds okay with a Les Paul or an ES-335 - NOT with a Strat or Tele (way too bright).
(note: CLN1 and CLN2 do not have a gain control parameter)
BLUE - a bluesy distortion with moderate gain. <---this is what I always use for overdrive/distortion. Sounds pretty good for what it is.
SAT - a high gain tube distortion, which is ideal for soloing. <--- okay, if I want a wicked feedbacked, Hendrix type of tone.

Solid State Tone
Gru - is an over the top high gain distortion. <---HELL NO! Sounds like an ice pick to the forehead!!!!
Odr - is a low to medium gain distortion. <---NO... Sounds so brittle you could chip paint with it - but at least not as bad as "Gru" (Grunge)!!!
Hstn - is a warm sustaining distortion. <---Um, no thanks. It's a cheesy, very thin sounding, Carlos Santana sustain tone.
FuZZ - is a vintage full-frequency fuzz. <---Um, not really. Sounds like a swarm of bees built a nest inside my Digitech RP7!!


With all of this said... The only real effect I use and have programmed into it, is "BLUE" when I want distortion. I have the gain setting backed down to get a nice classic Overdrive sound out of it. All the others I don't even use. When I hit the Chorus setting, I have the preamp/gain mode setting bypassed, so I am playing clean straight out of the amp. Basically I'm turning the Digitech RP7 into a giant sized Chorus pedal.

The only reason I hang onto it, is because it sounds great with headphones, and I have some sweet tones saved for recording onto either my PC or onto my old Tascam 414 Portastudio mkII cassette recorder.

I know its hard to get rid of a gift from your kid, who in all had the greatest intentions, but if she got it a steal of a price, see if you trade it in and can get more than was paid for it, or if its within the return policy time limit, Then you can put it towards a tube amp. (but first and foremost, talk to her first) Just my thoughts, but her fellings do come first.

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" honey, can i trade your gift in on a tube amp "
yeah that will go over.

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63supro
"The good thing is in a club situation, most of the patrons are trashed and really can't tell the difference."

I have to agree that having solid state cleans isn't such a bad thing. I find them to usually be quicker to respond to picking attacks than some of the slight drag that Tube amps can have. Not saying either one is bad, just different. If you have a tube going south in your amp, it can affect the clean channel in a not so nice way.

Tube distortion is also a good thing, but there are good Dist. Pedals out there that do a fine job. Not sure you'll ever find anything all that usable in the Digitech. I've never been able to anyway. But pedals like Proco, Fulltone, EH, etc.. They can sound pretty damn beefy going through a good clean channel. The pedal doesn't necessarily have to have a tube in it.

It doesn't take a whole lot of actual "distortion" to do what it seems like you're asking. But in order to get a beefy sound, I'm also not so sure a SS Fender amp is all that useful either. My 2 main SS amps are a Roland JC-50, and an Ampeg SS-77. The reason I like them is that they provide a good amount of deep, rich Bass along with the mids. Something I personally don't feel like I get enough of out of SS Fenders.

I would say you would either need a new tube amp, or you could try one of the many different pedals to choose from. Why go through the imitation of modelling, when you can have the real pedal it's trying to model?

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HaleAmano- House Of Sharks (Now On iTunes)
http://www.reverbnation.com/haleamano
http://www.haleamano.com

Thanks...

Here is an example of two very distinct tones that I copied (well, sort of...)
Note: Refer to that photo of the Digitech RP7 that I posted above
I have the Digitech set in "Bank Mode" so each black pedal acts like it's own preset/programmed stomp box.
(1) Distortion
(2) Chorus
(3) Overdrive & Delay
(4) Distortion & Wah Wah (even though the wah mode sucks on the Digitech).

Eric Clapton's cover of "Before You Accuse Me"
Strat neck pickup.
Digitech pedal (1) "BLUE" tube distortion with nothing else aside from the amp's spring reverb.

BTO's "You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet"
Strat bridge pickup.
Digitech pedal (3) "BLUE" tube distortion, but gain parameter backed way down so it's just a mild but bright overdrive. Delay is set to 200ms, for a very subtle delay, almost a slapback echo, as heard in Randy Bachman's intro guitar solo. Nothing else aside from the amp's spring reverb.

All other modes, banks, parameters, 40-something-or-other factory presets, are left alone and unused.

I like the crystal clear clean sound of the Frontman 65, but I need to find a nice beefy, but subtle, overdriven tube sound. There has got to be a pedal that can emulate an overdrive tube amp. My Digitech RP7 processor has the 12AX7 preamp tube built in, but it takes quite some time to fiddle with it, mess around with this or that, read the manual, and try and try and try to find the right tone. *sigh*

For some reason, I am not a real big tone chaser. I buy what I think sounds good, but I don't base it on another players sound. Never been too into pedals. 9 times out of 10 i just plug staright into the amp and play. Even when I bought my first amp, I didn't have a certain sound in my head. I just went in, played it, liked it and bought it. Either I am easy to please or I created my tone from what i had to work with.

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come on butch, stop fighting it bro. get you a tube amp. plenty of used blues jr's out there for a fair price.
finding a pedal that "emulate's" a tube amp is gonna be tough. they can come close but that all lack that tube tone. even the pedals with the tube in them. just break down and do what you know your gonna have to do bro.
buying a pedal that "emulates" a tube amp is like trying to find something that emulates a wife or a dog or whatever. just get the real deal and call it a learning experience.
this way you wont have to make this mistake again. a solid collection of amps will have SS and tube amps in the mix. the SS wont sound like tube and the tube wont ever sound like SS. dont even get me started on the modeling amps either. aint but one of those on the market even worth having. if it dont say Vox on it that aint the one.

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63supro
"The good thing is in a club situation, most of the patrons are trashed and really can't tell the difference."

i always have my ear open for a better tone. im not
trying to sound like anybody other than Way Cool either.
so yeah i guess one can call me a tone chaser, but im chasing
my tone to be better, not anybody elses.

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63supro
"The good thing is in a club situation, most of the patrons are trashed and really can't tell the difference."

I Agree with the tube amp comment.(even though I'm currently using a "Hybrid",Musicman 112rd) Nothing sounds like a cranked tube amp.
As far as preamp/pedals go you might want to look at the Seymour Duncan TwinTube Blue.
It runs on 2 military grade tubes (don't know exact spec). It is pricey, but maybe just what you're looking for.
One of those pedals, If bought new, isn't to far off price-wise to getting a used pro jr./blues jr.

I can't get the tone i'm searching for either. Well, half of it anyway.
I love my clean tone. Just trying to get bassman overdriven tones.

Hello,
After 45 years of chasing tone, I decided to do pretty much what Clapton does. Get a 57'reissue tweed twin (or a 40watt blues deluxe, tweed tube amp) and plug the guitar into that. I plug a Fender CS clapton ( the blue one) into that. For effects, a leslie is nice and a wah. That is pretty much what Clapton does. He sometimes uses a chorus pedal.
Just get a 40 watt tube amp so you can turn it up without ear damage, and plug and play, as Joe Walsh once said.
With all that said, the main thing is to please yourself. In my opinion, the more pedals you add, the lousier the tone. All the effects take away from the pure tube sound.