I've been looking for a 5 speed for the summer to learn on and for better mpg (i currently drive an explorer). I've been looking at audi a4 and vw jettas mostly. My question is do these cars require the higher grade fuel? I think I read that premium is recommended in the audi, but what if I use regular? what about the vw? I'm worried that the added cost for the premium gas will offset the better mpg!

My Audi runs on regular 95RON unleaded.

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No no and no

Being in the automotive industry (major truck and engine manufacturer), for a long time, perhaps this may be of aid.

Consider "Total Ccost of Operation" for the proposed new vehicle and then spreadsheet it beside your existing one. Use any time period you wish, but maybe a 5 year period is a good meter.

* Initial cost (begin today), current payment, which might be 0, compared with proposed new ride's
* fuel cost (miles per year)
* insurance per year
* predicted (be honest) maintenance per year
* then figure the "per mile" cost

Your current vehicle, despite less efficient fuel economy and more maintenance than a new vehicle, will likely have a TCO only a fraction that of a new ride.

Best of fortune.

whoa! Thats one of the the best answers I've EVER seen, ANYWHERE. Thanks!

start your own bio-fuel production facility
sell your bio-fuel to fleet/trucking corporations (remember to mention the tax credits)
get rich
buy a Tesla electric roadster

You will get better MPG with an automatic than a 5 speed, and you will save muney on clutches and throwout bearings. just keep your transmission filter and fluid level maintained, and the coolant in your radiator proper, Less stress!

+1000!

That's the simplest and easiest-to-grasp method of indexing and amortizing the cost of vehicle ownership that there is -- makes comparisons a snap!

Right on!!!



Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY

I got my first eye opener about cars when I was 15. A 1940 Chevy $250. Then a 48 Buick convertable $400. 1955 Chev $600. 1965 Chev SS $3000. and so on for ever. When you factor in the cost of the cars themselves, the price of GAS was nothing. SAVE YOUR CASH, and buy another Guitar.

If you want fun and MPG look for something with a turbo. Ford is currently touting it's great new fuel saving "Ecoboost technology". It's a turbo, which have been around since the early 1900's. WHHOOO HHOOO, GO MODERN TECHNOLOGY!!. If old Henry had thrown a couple turbos on the assembly line, he would have been helping to save fuel for almost a hundred years.

I drive a VW Passat. The fuel tank door says it reccomends premium, but I have only put regular in it. I have had no issues. The guy I bought it from put regular in it too.

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Perhaps I can help or at least throw in my 4 cents.

I have both, a 2004 Ford Ranger 4x4 ( V6 4.0 ) which gets 10-13 mpg.
And a 2004 Audi A4 1.8 Turbo Avant. which gets 30+ mpg

No brainer on which I drive the most, not to mention the Ranger is a truck, handles like a truck.

As far as the A4, recommendation from Audi is Shell 93 octane fuel, I have used 89-87 from Mobil and have calculated that @ 89 Oct. I get about 90 miles less to a full tank versus the 93.
I have calculated this about a dozen times and get the same approximate result.
The 1st time I did the numbers I thought it couldn't be correct but additional calculations confirmed this.
An important factor in Audi's is that if you are going to use 89 or less fuel, you are going to have issues with your coil packs. Result is pre-detonation from the lesser grade fuel which results in higher temperatures around the coil packs and premature failure of those coils.
Additionally Audi engineers its engine to run most efficiently optimally on the higher grade ( 93 ) fuel.
I suspect that I will get denial over this but since I have had to have my coil packs replaced I am convinced of the validity. Even more so since for more than a year I have not put anything but 93 in the A4.
Also, Synthetic oil must be used in the engine, approved by Audi ( Castrol ) or if you have a problem, your warrany will be null and void. Audi's/Vw's are not inexpensive to repair so obsessive adherence to maintenance schedule is critical.

On the other hand, I had to replace the Ranger's engine @ 70,000 miles. That was a nice $6,000 bill, which ( I won't digress about the dealership and all ) for me, I will never buy another Ford product.

About the Turbo thing, as HemiRam suggests, it will allow you to have fun, But when you step on it and engage the Turbo for continuous spirited driving, forget about your high MPG.

Concerning a 5 speed, I assume you are actually refering to a manual transmission, not the Tiptronic with the option of sequential manual which I find the better solution for all around driving, not to mention that when on a steep hill and stopped the rollback feature kicks in and allows you to wait without applying the brakes for the light to switch.
Yes a manual is fun but if you do a lot of stop and go in city then the tiptronic is the better choice.
Also if you are going to an A4, get the quattro, the handling difference in the dry, but the advantage in wet or snow is incredible.
Tires are critically important, they are expensive for the Audi's, but keep in mind that the tire's contact patch is the only thing keeping you on the road, so the cheaper the tire, the worse it will perform in wet or snowing conditions which is the times when you need the best performing tires.
I run a dedicated set of wheels and tires for winter, ( Michelin Alpin 3 on 17" wheels 235-45 17 ) and for spring summer fall a set of 18" wheels and tires.

I'm illustrating that an Audi is not the least expensive car to have, thus I bought mine preowned and certified from a dedicated Audi vendor ( Inskip ) they are actually all high end, BMW, Porsche, Mercedes, Bentley, Lexus.
Preowned because it made no sense to buy brand new when preowned came with a full 100,000 mile or 2 year full warranty. A saving of about $15,000.
Today I have 170,000 miles on this A4, drives tightly, no rattles, no squeaks, no issues or problems. But I do have a long stack of maintenance receipts so this is a cost which you should calculate, Audi's and Vw's are German cars and must be maintained up to spec or failure of expensive components and repairs will become a reality.
You can drive a Japanese car into the ground but you cannot do that with the VAG group.
As far as the mpg factor, at this point most 2000 and up cars get 25+ mpg or above, the question becomes what is a well engineered vehicle that in most likely hood in the event of a serious collision, you can walk away from.
My Ford Ranger, Forget it, the Explorer is the same thing, most small cars, are death traps when you consider what is rolling around on the highways today.
Just IMHO you could not pay me enough to step into a Toyota Prius or a Honda Civic to even go down to the P.O.

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"C'est parti mon Kiki "

A Tesla, well that will shoot the TCO right out the window, if Im not mistaken, aren't they at about a $100,000.00 purchase price...
Our lifespans are too short to recoup any cost savings over the long term and at that sticker price, who cares about MPG or lack of MPG. Seriously at that level $15 a Gallon will be irrelevant since disposible income is not a factor.
But then there are a few other more desirable scooters to pick from. ( RS4 or RS6 )...

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"C'est parti mon Kiki "

We clearly have guitar people who are into cars here. I'm a car person who's gotten into guitars over the last 3 years. 25 years road racing, 12 instructing, 5 years prior autocross, etc....and I'm a moderator on 2 car forums.

That said, I'm also an engineer, so I go looking for answers. When someone tells me "you can't use 87 octane in my Subaru Legacy GT", it gets me out to see what the car does. Well....it backs off timing and boost at the limit. The car also has 3 maps for performance and I drive a lot, so am almost always in economy mode. I'll hit 80k miles, and except for track days, have run 87 all the time. 87 has more energy content and burns completely in your car, so with careful measurement (I've done it), you'll probably find that you get better gas mileage. I get 28mpg in my Subaru.

Other things to consider. A manual will always be better on fuel than an automatic (with the possible exception of dual clutch dsg type autos like BMW M cars, Evos, S4's, iS-F's, AMG's and Ferraris have....will always be lower. My wife also has a Subaru and does not have the turbo but has an automatic and gets 22mpg.

2 wheel drive of the same car will get better mileage than AWD. AWD driveline losses are on average 25%. 2 wheel drive 15%. So an A4 FWD car will do better than an A4 AWD car.

Consider maintenance cost and convenience. I've had Audis and Subarus (and many other cars, but those are sort of the opposite from my experience. My Audis were great in that they had long warantees and free A4 loaner cars which I used VERY OFTEN. My Subaru has been to the dealer once ever for a recall check.....which my car didn't need any work.

Find an online forum for each car you're considering and lurk around. You can learn a lot.

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2002 mim Telecaster
Jimmie Vaughan Stratocaster
Mexican HSS Stratocaster
6 non-fender guitars
2 kids (not for sale)
1 wife (uh....no comment)

I used to have FWD cars, Saab and Volvo and a Civic way back in the early 80's. After driving a Quattro there is just no way I would revert back to an FWD car. Where I'm at in the NE corner of CT, this past winter we got dumped on, my normal 2 car wide driveway was reduced to 1 car width, with 6 foot tall snow banks on either side. Now that was fun to get in and out of for two people and two cars not to mention I'm off a busy highway on a long hill and it seems everyone understands 45mph means 60-65 mph.

The negligible increase in MPG with FWD versus AWD is irrelevant when you are stuck or cannot get enough traction to get going, I absolutely have to get to work and often enough it is when the weather is at its worst.

A funny thing happened back in February, I was leaving Fed-Ex and at the entrance to the complex off the access road, a dual trailer had completely jacknifed across the entire roadway. The 2nd trailer was heading down the roadway, the 1st trailer was perpendicular to the road and the tractor itself was heading back up the road 180 degree's from where the 2nd trailer was pointing. The road was completely blocked off except for a small passage over the right handside curb onto the sidewalk.
Now it had rained then frozen up so just that 100 yard driveway section, not the main road was a 1/2 inch thick sheet of ice. A couple of FWD cars tried to make it up on the curb but couldn't. With Quattro I was able to climb over the curb and get the hell out of there to get home. It has been to often that I see anyone with FWD or worse RWD struggle on New England road in the winter. Though of course knowing how to drive in ice and snow is a prerequisite.
AWD is a great advantage but if you push past the limit of physics, unpleasant things happen...

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"C'est parti mon Kiki "

53 magnatone, Thanks for the details! I'm definitely buying used for obvious cost savings.
Jack, car forums...never thought of that! Good Idea!
I was also considering subarus (legacy and impreza), anyone have experience with them? I know they last forever, but what about ride/space?