It is currently Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:35 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 59 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Author Message
Post subject: Re: kurt cobain movie...
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:09 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2009 6:49 pm
Posts: 649
Location: Under rocks, shrubs, and trees
I'm not a big Cortney Love fan... I think she's probably in it for the money... On a funny note, back in the day at a Nirvana concert, Cobain smashed up a guitar and tossed it into the crowd. Love goes running out into the crowd and wrestled away the neck of the guitar from one of the fans, and sold it later I believe...

I've always enjoyed Nirvana, and Cobain was a music pioneer... I think I would see this movie if it wasn't headed by Love.

A Pearl Jam movie would be great though 8) I would love to hear more of the back stories Eddie Vedder has for some of his songs... I'm a huge fan.

Have they ever made a SRV doc? I saw the Buddy Holly one on tv the other day... (good stuff...) Maybe the Who...

_________________
Kid: "Hey Smokey! Where did you get your name?"
Smokey the Bear: "Well..."
(former user jimbo612)
Image


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: kurt cobain movie...
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:13 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:55 am
Posts: 4017
Location: Australia, VIC
see, if one of us youngun's called him a music pioneer we'd get a real lot of hate tossed at us :roll: . but i totally agree with you, alot of people see him as a noise-makin' junkie. listen to serve the servants studio version, and listen to the live and loud version. the solo's are practically the same, and you'd think he ws just beatin' the crap out of his guitar in the studio version.

by the way, what the hell was up with tochai's last post :lol: ? seem's a bit random :lol:

_________________
riley


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: kurt cobain movie...
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:24 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:58 pm
Posts: 7714
Location: Planet Earth
Tochai wrote:
There are plans to make a Grateful Dead video game.

That be better then a Cobain movie.

_________________
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: kurt cobain movie...
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:30 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:42 pm
Posts: 1524
Location: OZ
SmokeythaBear wrote:
I'm not a big Cortney Love fan...
Have they ever made a SRV doc?


+1 On Courtney.....

And yeah.... SRV Movie, Jeff Buckley Movie, Diamond Darrel, The list goes on...... I get that Kurt touched a lot of people ...I don't really rate him as a musican hey thats subjective.... Angus Young was my Kurt....

My 2 cents.....anyways.... 8)

_________________
Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: kurt cobain movie...
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:50 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:32 pm
Posts: 2459
Location: Through The Gates Of Mordor..
radio_friendly_unit_shifter wrote:
see, if one of us youngun's called him a music pioneer we'd get a real lot of hate tossed at us :roll: . but i totally agree with you, alot of people see him as a noise-makin' junkie. listen to serve the servants studio version, and listen to the live and loud version. the solo's are practically the same, and you'd think he ws just beatin' the crap out of his guitar in the studio version.

by the way, what the hell was up with tochai's last post :lol: ? seem's a bit random :lol:


To be honest, when I was into Nirvana I would have been 15 and I was blasting 'Bleach' like it went out of fashion. I grew my hair long, I had black tshirts and flannelette tartan shirts as that was what everyone wore in the day. They were popular, and the album 'In Utero' was a chart topper with 'Heart Shaped Box' but back then, I would've hardly called them pioneers. I dont mean to cause stirr, but the Nirvana movement was similar to Justin Beaver fever today.. But you wouldn't exactly call lil Miss Beaver a pioneer would you :wink: That is what the oldies are getting at I think. But back in those days- especially in 1990 and '91 there were some pretty cool albums released by other bands like Metallica, Red Hot Chilli Peppers, Guns n Roses, AC/DC, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Radiohead and a few others too.. it was a pretty cool time for music, as keyboards and synths were thrown and loud guitars were back in.

Back then I allways thought of Nirvana as being similar to the Sex Pistols with the way they came about the music scene, the way they structured the songs in a simple manner and the 'anarchy' (for lack of a better word) against mainstream music and the corporate industry behind it. I think I remember punk made a slight comeback too with Greenday and other bands like Rancid, Korn and the 'guitar solo' was starting to become unpopular..

This was probably one of the worst guitar phases of my life because all I wanted to do back then was play my guitar so loud to the point it would feedback, and just make wailing sounds with it & I didnt learn a great deal. I didnt want to solo or even try, all I wanted to be like was Cobain and play all the songs from 'Insecticide'.

Ok, there I said it.. :lol: I wanted to be like Cobain, ...Oh My! :roll: :oops: oops.

I also remember the day he was pronounced dead. I didnt care too much, but I remember some girls at school crying their eyes out. I thought that was pretty intense.

Perhaps I guess what happened to music after that was interesting too, it took his death to bring about a change. But I reckon the best thing about Nirvana was Dave Grohl. He has done very well for himself, I immediately thought if anyone should have a doco or a movie, I thought he should of all the members in Nirvana.. He is a good guy too. Did you know he canceled their Foo Fighters shows in Japan a couple weeks ago, and played a concert in Auckland and ALL money from that show went dont to Christchurch earthquake appeal?

I guess its all swings and roundabouts at the end of the day... but as much as I liked, and still like Nirvanas music, there is allways the knowing if whether Cobain was still alive today things would be different.. which kinda is a real let down.. especially for Francis Bean Cobain. He had his reasons I guess, but what exactly we will never know. I think it was a little manic depression, mild schizophrenia mixed with a drug addiction that went wrong.. back then, drugs and meth use went hand in hand with the music industry aswell as all the money. The survivor bands and artists will tell you. The ones I mentioned above have all been through it all.

_________________
Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: kurt cobain movie...
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 4:22 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:55 am
Posts: 4017
Location: Australia, VIC
Blertles wrote:
radio_friendly_unit_shifter wrote:
see, if one of us youngun's called him a music pioneer we'd get a real lot of hate tossed at us :roll: . but i totally agree with you, alot of people see him as a noise-makin' junkie. listen to serve the servants studio version, and listen to the live and loud version. the solo's are practically the same, and you'd think he ws just beatin' the crap out of his guitar in the studio version.

by the way, what the hell was up with tochai's last post :lol: ? seem's a bit random :lol:


To be honest, when I was into Nirvana I would have been 15 and I was blasting 'Bleach' like it went out of fashion. I grew my hair long, I had black tshirts and flannelette tartan shirts as that was what everyone wore in the day. They were popular, and the album 'In Utero' was a chart topper with 'Heart Shaped Box' but back then, I would've hardly called them pioneers. I dont mean to cause stirr, but the Nirvana movement was similar to Justin Beaver fever today.. But you wouldn't exactly call lil Miss Beaver a pioneer would you :wink: That is what the oldies are getting at I think. But back in those days- especially in 1990 and '91 there were some pretty cool albums released by other bands like Metallica, Red Hot Chilli Peppers, Guns n Roses, AC/DC, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Radiohead and a few others too.. it was a pretty cool time for music, as keyboards and synths were thrown and loud guitars were back in.

Back then I allways thought of Nirvana as being similar to the Sex Pistols with the way they came about the music scene, the way they structured the songs in a simple manner and the 'anarchy' (for lack of a better word) against mainstream music and the corporate industry behind it. I think I remember punk made a slight comeback too with Greenday and other bands like Rancid, Korn and the 'guitar solo' was starting to become unpopular..

This was probably one of the worst guitar phases of my life because all I wanted to do back then was play my guitar so loud to the point it would feedback, and just make wailing sounds with it & I didnt learn a great deal. I didnt want to solo or even try, all I wanted to be like was Cobain and play all the songs from 'Insecticide'.

Ok, there I said it.. :lol: I wanted to be like Cobain, ...Oh My! :roll: :oops: oops.

I also remember the day he was pronounced dead. I didnt care too much, but I remember some girls at school crying their eyes out. I thought that was pretty intense.

Perhaps I guess what happened to music after that was interesting too, it took his death to bring about a change. But I reckon the best thing about Nirvana was Dave Grohl. He has done very well for himself, I immediately thought if anyone should have a doco or a movie, I thought he should of all the members in Nirvana.. He is a good guy too. Did you know he canceled their Foo Fighters shows in Japan a couple weeks ago, and played a concert in Auckland and ALL money from that show went dont to Christchurch earthquake appeal?

I guess its all swings and roundabouts at the end of the day... but as much as I liked, and still like Nirvanas music, there is allways the knowing if whether Cobain was still alive today things would be different.. which kinda is a real let down.. especially for Francis Bean Cobain. He had his reasons I guess, but what exactly we will never know. I think it was a little manic depression, mild schizophrenia mixed with a drug addiction that went wrong.. back then, drugs and meth use went hand in hand with the music industry aswell as all the money. The survivor bands and artists will tell you. The ones I mentioned above have all been through it all.

again, i wasn't the one who called him a music pioneer....iit was smokey the bear, and who gets the lecture? the teenager :roll:

sorry if i sounded a little braggy and frusterated there, i'm just pointing something out. on the brighter side, , yes i agree with you that dave grohl is a great guy, personally i dont really like the foo fighters stuff, but them crooked vultures is pretty awesome. i think of cobain were alive it wouldn't be that ifferent, he was about to quit the music industry, dave would have probably made his own band, like he did, and novoselic, i dunno what he wouldv'e done, but yeah the whole "grunge" scene wouldv'e just got boring. heck i wasn't even there to live it so what the hell do i know :lol: :lol:

_________________
riley


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: kurt cobain movie...
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 4:51 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:32 pm
Posts: 2459
Location: Through The Gates Of Mordor..
aha! right you are dude, smokey the bear said that they are pioneers!! :lol: Sorry, I have had a long day- feeling worse for wear.

I guess its like if you die before your time when your famous, you will be even more famous when your dead kinda thing..

90's were a cool time for music- I reckon they were the best :D I guess I get carried away when I talk about the cool things that happened when I was young :)

_________________
Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: kurt cobain movie...
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 4:00 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:42 pm
Posts: 1524
Location: OZ
Blertles wrote:
radio_friendly_unit_shifter wrote:
see, if one of us youngun's called him a music pioneer we'd get a real lot of hate tossed at us :roll: . but i totally agree with you, alot of people see him as a noise-makin' junkie. listen to serve the servants studio version, and listen to the live and loud version. the solo's are practically the same, and you'd think he ws just beatin' the crap out of his guitar in the studio version.

by the way, what the hell was up with tochai's last post :lol: ? seem's a bit random :lol:


To be honest, when I was into Nirvana I would have been 15 and I was blasting 'Bleach' like it went out of fashion. I grew my hair long, I had black tshirts and flannelette tartan shirts as that was what everyone wore in the day. They were popular, and the album 'In Utero' was a chart topper with 'Heart Shaped Box' but back then, I would've hardly called them pioneers. I dont mean to cause stirr, but the Nirvana movement was similar to Justin Beaver fever today.. But you wouldn't exactly call lil Miss Beaver a pioneer would you :wink: That is what the oldies are getting at I think. But back in those days- especially in 1990 and '91 there were some pretty cool albums released by other bands like Metallica, Red Hot Chilli Peppers, Guns n Roses, AC/DC, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Radiohead and a few others too.. it was a pretty cool time for music, as keyboards and synths were thrown and loud guitars were back in.

Back then I allways thought of Nirvana as being similar to the Sex Pistols with the way they came about the music scene, the way they structured the songs in a simple manner and the 'anarchy' (for lack of a better word) against mainstream music and the corporate industry behind it. I think I remember punk made a slight comeback too with Greenday and other bands like Rancid, Korn and the 'guitar solo' was starting to become unpopular..

This was probably one of the worst guitar phases of my life because all I wanted to do back then was play my guitar so loud to the point it would feedback, and just make wailing sounds with it & I didnt learn a great deal. I didnt want to solo or even try, all I wanted to be like was Cobain and play all the songs from 'Insecticide'.

Ok, there I said it.. :lol: I wanted to be like Cobain, ...Oh My! :roll: :oops: oops.

I also remember the day he was pronounced dead. I didnt care too much, but I remember some girls at school crying their eyes out. I thought that was pretty intense.

Perhaps I guess what happened to music after that was interesting too, it took his death to bring about a change. But I reckon the best thing about Nirvana was Dave Grohl. He has done very well for himself, I immediately thought if anyone should have a doco or a movie, I thought he should of all the members in Nirvana.. He is a good guy too. Did you know he canceled their Foo Fighters shows in Japan a couple weeks ago, and played a concert in Auckland and ALL money from that show went dont to Christchurch earthquake appeal?

I guess its all swings and roundabouts at the end of the day... but as much as I liked, and still like Nirvanas music, there is allways the knowing if whether Cobain was still alive today things would be different.. which kinda is a real let down.. especially for Francis Bean Cobain. He had his reasons I guess, but what exactly we will never know. I think it was a little manic depression, mild schizophrenia mixed with a drug addiction that went wrong.. back then, drugs and meth use went hand in hand with the music industry aswell as all the money. The survivor bands and artists will tell you. The ones I mentioned above have all been through it all.



So well said Blertles......So well said!!!.......I cannot believe some one with your views radiated to Kurt over Morrello or Kim Thayil or Slash but there you have it...... I suppose if i were 5 years younger at the time i may have too.... I was so blinded by ACDC blues in the 80's when i was a squirt.. that my natural Progression was Metal and Heptfeild and Darrel were captivating me at the time.....
Dave Grohl is a absolutely sensational musician and was undeniably the most talented dude to come out of the whole deal agreed 100%....I don't listen to the Foo's but when i have made the effort i am always impressed...

_________________
Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: kurt cobain movie...
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 3:26 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:16 pm
Posts: 881
Blertles wrote:
radio_friendly_unit_shifter wrote:
see, if one of us youngun's called him a music pioneer we'd get a real lot of hate tossed at us :roll: . but i totally agree with you, alot of people see him as a noise-makin' junkie. listen to serve the servants studio version, and listen to the live and loud version. the solo's are practically the same, and you'd think he ws just beatin' the crap out of his guitar in the studio version.

by the way, what the hell was up with tochai's last post :lol: ? seem's a bit random :lol:


To be honest, when I was into Nirvana I would have been 15 and I was blasting 'Bleach' like it went out of fashion. I grew my hair long, I had black tshirts and flannelette tartan shirts as that was what everyone wore in the day. They were popular, and the album 'In Utero' was a chart topper with 'Heart Shaped Box' but back then, I would've hardly called them pioneers. I dont mean to cause stirr, but the Nirvana movement was similar to Justin Beaver fever today.. But you wouldn't exactly call lil Miss Beaver a pioneer would you :wink: That is what the oldies are getting at I think. But back in those days- especially in 1990 and '91 there were some pretty cool albums released by other bands like Metallica, Red Hot Chilli Peppers, Guns n Roses, AC/DC, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Radiohead and a few others too.. it was a pretty cool time for music, as keyboards and synths were thrown and loud guitars were back in.

Back then I allways thought of Nirvana as being similar to the Sex Pistols with the way they came about the music scene, the way they structured the songs in a simple manner and the 'anarchy' (for lack of a better word) against mainstream music and the corporate industry behind it. I think I remember punk made a slight comeback too with Greenday and other bands like Rancid, Korn and the 'guitar solo' was starting to become unpopular..

This was probably one of the worst guitar phases of my life because all I wanted to do back then was play my guitar so loud to the point it would feedback, and just make wailing sounds with it & I didnt learn a great deal. I didnt want to solo or even try, all I wanted to be like was Cobain and play all the songs from 'Insecticide'.

Ok, there I said it.. :lol: I wanted to be like Cobain, ...Oh My! :roll: :oops: oops.

I also remember the day he was pronounced dead. I didnt care too much, but I remember some girls at school crying their eyes out. I thought that was pretty intense.

Perhaps I guess what happened to music after that was interesting too, it took his death to bring about a change. But I reckon the best thing about Nirvana was Dave Grohl. He has done very well for himself, I immediately thought if anyone should have a doco or a movie, I thought he should of all the members in Nirvana.. He is a good guy too. Did you know he canceled their Foo Fighters shows in Japan a couple weeks ago, and played a concert in Auckland and ALL money from that show went dont to Christchurch earthquake appeal?

I guess its all swings and roundabouts at the end of the day... but as much as I liked, and still like Nirvanas music, there is allways the knowing if whether Cobain was still alive today things would be different.. which kinda is a real let down.. especially for Francis Bean Cobain. He had his reasons I guess, but what exactly we will never know. I think it was a little manic depression, mild schizophrenia mixed with a drug addiction that went wrong.. back then, drugs and meth use went hand in hand with the music industry aswell as all the money. The survivor bands and artists will tell you. The ones I mentioned above have all been through it all.
Radiohead :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

_________________
Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: kurt cobain movie...
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:42 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:24 pm
Posts: 1
Location: Colorado
I think Kurt could have been one of the greats of his time. Awesome young talented musician like so many battled with internal demons. I wish someone could have reached out to him to save him from an early death. RIP Kurt we will miss your contributions but the Nirvana pulse still lives.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: kurt cobain movie...
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 6:21 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2009 6:49 pm
Posts: 649
Location: Under rocks, shrubs, and trees
haha yes it was me who said he was a music pioneer. Whenever I think 90's grunge, I think of him waving the grungey battleflag... :wink: That's why I think of him as a pioneer of his genre. (though, my choice of words could be better too, the word "pioneer" just came to mind)

I wonder what it would be like if he was alive... Sometimes I wonder if there was anyone who could just reach out and help people who were suffering like him.

Makes me wish that I could have reach out to my real mom before she passed away, though I was too young at the time to notice anything wrong. She struggled with drugs and depression, but I was only in middleschool and I didn't know that much about it. (which is maybe why I find this post about Cobain interesting)



Some great opinions on this post. +1 to all of you guys

_________________
Kid: "Hey Smokey! Where did you get your name?"
Smokey the Bear: "Well..."
(former user jimbo612)
Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: kurt cobain movie...
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:45 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:39 pm
Posts: 3399
Location: teh webz?
andyberard wrote:
I think Kurt could have been one of the greats of his time. Awesome young talented musician like so many battled with internal demons. I wish someone could have reached out to him to save him from an early death. RIP Kurt we will miss your contributions but the Nirvana pulse still lives.


He very well could have become one of the greats had he lived. Listen to "You Know You're Right"; he was just beginning to master what he had been trying to do in all of Nirvana's previous work, and the result was absolute beauty. I for one think there is more from that recording session.... I mean, it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to go into the studio and record and completely mix ONE song. It's no secret that there's A LOT Love hasn't released (I suspect something "new" with the 20th anniversary of Nevermind), and I wouldn't be surprised if there's more from that particular session.

_________________
Favorite bands:

Melvins
The Jesus Lizard
Cows
Big Business
R***man
Minutemen
Flight
Minor Threat
Big Black
Shellac
Karp
Scratch Acid
Wipers
Pixies


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: kurt cobain movie...
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:13 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:55 am
Posts: 4017
Location: Australia, VIC
Floyd_The_Barber wrote:
andyberard wrote:
I think Kurt could have been one of the greats of his time. Awesome young talented musician like so many battled with internal demons. I wish someone could have reached out to him to save him from an early death. RIP Kurt we will miss your contributions but the Nirvana pulse still lives.


He very well could have become one of the greats had he lived. Listen to "You Know You're Right"; he was just beginning to master what he had been trying to do in all of Nirvana's previous work, and the result was absolute beauty. I for one think there is more from that recording session.... I mean, it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to go into the studio and record and completely mix ONE song. It's no secret that there's A LOT Love hasn't released (I suspect something "new" with the 20th anniversary of Nevermind), and I wouldn't be surprised if there's more from that particular session.

you know your right is a very trippy as song, i too reckon there was more where that came from and yeah your right he was just starting master the guitar technique inside of him. on the 20th aniversery of nevermin's release, i really hope live and loud is realesed on dvd, and the L&L rehearsal's and stuff, cause i really like that concert, think its better than reading. its just a matter of time before it gets taken off youtube :roll:

_________________
riley


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: kurt cobain movie...
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:30 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:39 pm
Posts: 3399
Location: teh webz?
radio_friendly_unit_shifter wrote:
Floyd_The_Barber wrote:
andyberard wrote:
I think Kurt could have been one of the greats of his time. Awesome young talented musician like so many battled with internal demons. I wish someone could have reached out to him to save him from an early death. RIP Kurt we will miss your contributions but the Nirvana pulse still lives.


He very well could have become one of the greats had he lived. Listen to "You Know You're Right"; he was just beginning to master what he had been trying to do in all of Nirvana's previous work, and the result was absolute beauty. I for one think there is more from that recording session.... I mean, it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to go into the studio and record and completely mix ONE song. It's no secret that there's A LOT Love hasn't released (I suspect something "new" with the 20th anniversary of Nevermind), and I wouldn't be surprised if there's more from that particular session.

you know your right is a very trippy as song, i too reckon there was more where that came from and yeah your right he was just starting master the guitar technique inside of him. on the 20th aniversery of nevermin's release, i really hope live and loud is realesed on dvd, and the L&L rehearsal's and stuff, cause i really like that concert, think its better than reading. its just a matter of time before it gets taken off youtube :roll:


Well remember with Bleach, we got an early live show with the reissue AND Reading came out on DVD. I suspect Nevermind will be similar, probably a Nevermind-era performance and perhaps Live and Loud.... of course one can always hope some of the truly obscure stuff floating around youtube gets an official release at some point!

_________________
Favorite bands:

Melvins
The Jesus Lizard
Cows
Big Business
R***man
Minutemen
Flight
Minor Threat
Big Black
Shellac
Karp
Scratch Acid
Wipers
Pixies


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 59 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: