to the gentlemen that asked if I thought the website has improved I believe it has in a lot of ways but please make a note that the guitar comparison feature is inaccurate because it duplicates specs of the first guitar you pick to compare to in the color selection and pricing area.thank you

There is a little bit of wisdom in this thread. The question I see is: does Fender need to be all things, to all people, especially when there are many different brands that they own.

I imagine that there could be some benefit in reducing the number of product lines, and/or increasing the differentiation between them.

Basic set up and guitar condition upon delivery could be solved by something I have suggested for years...
Taking direction form the automotive industry..
A Predlivery Inspection/Service commonly known as a PDI

A check sheet.. a guitar, a competent tech.
The dealer gets the guitar, gives it a visual inspection for damage, hands it off to a guitar tech, where it is set up to factory specs. Signed off.
A copy fo the PDI goes back to the manufacture
A copy stays with the dealer, a copy goes to the customer upon sale and delivery.

When the dealer submits the copy to the manufactuter that generates a payment back to the dealer.. Oh you say additional cost to the manufacturer.. nope... reduced costs in unnecessary contacts and an opportunity to correct warrantable conditions before delivery which is cheaper than after delivery; and serves the additional benefit of a reduction in claims, calls, and improves the corporate and dealer image as well as giving the buyer a serviceable guitar.

I have proposed this to Martin, Gibson and Fender...

Maybe some day they will mature and do it realizing the benefits outweigh the initial set up and costs.

But I doubt this will happen as all three now call their Customer Service departments
CONSUMER Service and refer to their dealers as customers. My how things have changed since the 50's/60's. (don't bother testing me on this, been there, done that)

Welcome to the Forum. I appreciate your point of view, but I rather like the opportunity to choose a guitar that has options I am looking for to begin with. Personally I cannot afford a vintage Fender with the larger headstocks. Even if I could, I definitely wouldn't want to personalize it to my specifications, that would de-value an older guitar a lot more than a newer one.

When I go into a guitar store, I play all the guitars within my price range and let my hands and ears decide what is the one to purchase. I also take into consideration to what modifications I may want to do to it. If it still cheaper than having one built for me, it comes home with me.

Long story short, I am appreciative to the fact FMIC has many models to choose from. If the Blacktop, Roadworn, American Specials, ect... are not them models you like, don't buy them. I also like the comments that other players have on specific models as well. If there are enough negative reports on them, those models fall off my radar.

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RK

2007 Fender Highway 1
2012 American Deluxe
2015 MIM Dave Murray HHH
2010 Fender Blacktop
1987 Fender Avalon Acoustic
2012 Marshall DSL 15 watt head

But the reality is that your idea of what you want in a Deluxe is not what I want.
Leo Fender's best intentions has become a double edged sword. To provide an easily repairable and modifiable instrument for an affordable cost has evolved into an instrument that can be retrofitted to an endless variety of preferences.
Fender is following up on the demand from the public of wanting one with green jelly beans or one with green and red J.B.s or one with green and red polka dots etc...etc...

I for one do not advocate a return to the Henry Ford idea/method of " You can have a Model T. Ford in any color you would like, as long as it's black "
attempting that today is a garanteed..." One Way Trip to the La Brea Tar Pits for any Corporation "
On this example the educational system in the U.S. was designed to implement the Henry Ford Cookie Cutter production line system methodology. Not at all conducive to individuality and present times painfully illustrates its regressive and debilitating format.

As far as reducing models, Fender does, many models are only available for a short time and therefore become sort of cache for the one's lucky enough to have hopped aboard and purchased one.

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"C'est parti mon Kiki "

Having so many models does introduce the likelihood that the model you're looking for will not actually be in stock, so it's a double edge sword (assuming you aren't brave enough to purchase an unseen/unplayed model)

First Welcome to the Forum Bohemian 46

Now I have to chuckle about your assumption because if this was the case.. Let me ask you
How many irate Fender strat owners would be on the boards when Fender just issued a complete recall of their entire road-worn series due to pick a reason.
I for one hope that most corporations and especially FMIC ( remember CBS ) would not follow the Automotive Industries methods, according to recent times reporting, their MO hasn't seemed to be very good for customers, let alone the small amount of dealers that prided their customers over the board of directors stock price

I thought that most of this set up was to be performed by the Musical Instrument Dealership. I usually purchase at a couple of smaller guitar shops close to home and the instruments there are always ready to play and in excellent set-up condition. I have found that this is not the case with the Big Box style store, could it be too big of an inventory which requires too large of an overhead for individual instrument bespoke attention It's unfortunate but the last time I walked in to G.C. I picked up 5 guitars and all of them had frets proud of the neck which meant that someone forgot to monitor the humidity control in those places for quite some time. I have bought a couple of rare excellent acoustics at GC, but I now know that that was an extremely lucky set of circumstances of being at the right place at the right time.
I do not have problem with GC as I know what to expect.
As for the Automotive industy and it's dealers " CAVEAT EMPTOR " X 5..

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"C'est parti mon Kiki "

Right, but where I think the adjustment should happen is in the number of completed products offered. Have a simple product line, and then offer a variety of parts that can be installed post-purchased.

Another idea would be to have a simple product line, and have limited customization options that can be specified for a price that is less than the CS pricing, but more than the guitars found in store. You get this with suits actually - some places will do full bespoke and others do made to measure. Brooks Brothers actually has a program where you basically pick off-the-rack sizes, but then choose what options your jacket and pants have -- it's a little more than a standard suit, but not as expensive as made to measure, and a LOT less expensive than bespoke.

"a lot of players" being you

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Melvins
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Cows
Big Business
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Minutemen
Flight
Minor Threat
Big Black
Shellac
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Scratch Acid
Wipers
Pixies

Let's see.... Mighty Mite....Bhefner....Allparts....Warmoth... Should I continue
In addition to necks there are also bodies available as well as parts

Now if Fender themselves offered replacement necks, there would not be a need for the aforementioned, furthermore they would undercut their own profit percentages which they receive from an aftermarket supplier providing replacement parts under a licensing agreement.

Next I do not believe Fender would want the headache of having an entire division supplying parts. In addition you would now have Fender providing Fender logoe'd necks which in turn would be used to match up to aftermarket bodies and parts and be sold as the actual McCoy
It would and does not make any sense at all.

Granted, Carvin offers necks and kits, but I just checked their website and they no longer offer ready to mount necks with their logo on the headstock

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"C'est parti mon Kiki "

Welll !! I have a Brooks Brothers DB Charcoal Pinstripe as well as a Burberry Plaid also IN DB and a Harvey Lmtd, a Bill Blass...etc..etc.. all were not inexpensive.

There is limited customization options and it doesn't cost more. As far as a C.S. Do You have one This is not a question of arrogance or there is this kind of people and we are the other kind, sort of condescending statement.
But a CS guitar is a bespoke instrument and if you have the resources you can have a Master Tailor create your own personal vision. The lmtd CS's lines are far above any of the regular production models, I'm not sure of the argument here, but it smacks of the same issues I deal with in my profession.

I often get incredulous looks and responses of why is what you do so expensive ?
To which I reply, it isn't,.. Because I provide a custom product tailored to the customer and created and designed jointly, custom built from stock material and finished as a one of a kind product. ( I remodel residential homes in the high end custom design and prefer to build according to the style of the house and it's occupants) I prefer to not use cookie cutter prefab
components, especially in a kitchen redesign where ironically, I can build custom cabinetry to fit the layout and it's requirements rather than buy premade substandard components at exorbitant pricing.) That is unless you compare cookie cutter components from a big box supplier that look like someone is just storing the cabinetry in your kitchen for a while.

There isn't a consumer product supplier out there that provides one off custom models for the same pricing as their line offerings.
Wow I just bought a John Cruz Custom Shop Strat for the same price as I could have gotten a Deluxe.. Nice Fantasy, but not going to happen.

As far as having a line of parts available to be installed post purchase.. by who the consumer Evident in this Forum, most people have no idea as to how their guitars are configured and who is going to be responsible in the inevitable eventual mis-installs and the relative failure of the guitar because of poor install ?
Another huge nightmare in the housing industry and it's Contractor licensing farce

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"C'est parti mon Kiki "

Not to put too fine a point on the above but even Warmoth states that they are not direct replacement necks. They even list incompatibilities of their necks with certain Fender models. Being Licensed to sell a product does not mean it will work like the original.
See: http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/Necks/faq2.aspx#KCI

McDonalds puts Star Wars X-wing Fighters in their Happy Meals which are Licensed from George Lucas. Doesn't mean they are identical to what you see in the movie.

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-T

"You can't spend what you ain't got, you can't lose what you ain't never had" ~ McKinley Morganfield

Of course not, but there's Brooks Brothers, and then there's Brooks Brothers. They range in price from reasonable to "Oh My Goodness". The point is that with BB you can go with a nice product that's mass produced, or you can have varying levels of customization with higher price points... this is why they purchased Southwick in MA, and why they have a shirt factory in Garland, NC in addition to their overseas production.



Not yet..perhaps in a couple of years when I decide my AVRI Strat needs a big brother. My point was that CS versus Masterbuilt represents a tiering similar to made-to-measure versus bespoke in the clothing world. Both are customized products, but one represents and extra level of quality above the other.



I'm not talking true custom with my idea, I'm talking "here's an order sheet - pick you pickups, pick your fretboard material, pick your color" or something of a similar nature. Car companies do it all the time, you might have to wait a bit, but it's totally doable.



Why, your friendly neighborhood Fender Dealer! Granted, this would require a special tier of dealer, but it's not unheard of. Motorcycles, for example, usually require significant setup when they arrive at a dealer.

Thanks for the welcome. !
What "assumption" ?

Some manufacturers abbysmal offerings aside ( brand names with held) the idea of a Pre Delivery Service is the point.
The dealer is required to inspect and set up the product to factory specs and receives payment. Thus ensuring that the customer gets a properly operating product.
This allows the dealer to catch manufacturing mistakes and correct them before delivery.
It does not prevent future unseen failures. The manufacturer cuts down on calls and disappointments and can improve their image, therefore profitability.

The catch to this is that any failing of the product during the first 30 days of ownership
/operation due to the oversight of the dealer during the PDI, is the responsibility of the dealer. Afterall, the manufacturer paid for the service, and indirectly the customer paid.

I see this as a win win win.. Manufacturer, dealer customer.

Too many dealers "roll the ride".. ie get the job, get it done, get the money, next. Meaning zero responsibility for the sale , caring only about the income. This would be a way to make the dealer accountable and actually earn their money.

I choose to deal with responsible businesses. This is one of the reasons I do not care for GC and other big box stores. A deal is no deal without service. Price is not the only reason to purchase, what are you getting for your money. I'll pay a little more for VALUE..
which to me includes customer service; a concept misunderstood by many.

[quote="bohemian46"]Thanks for the welcome. !
What "assumption" ?

I think we are hitting the same grievance, but from varying viewpoints, as I posted i prefer small shops because of the hands on care. The Big Box store like G.C. I have no qualms about naming them is a completely different enterprise, set up as a retail store whose prime objective is to move a product out the door and generate revenues, for all their marketing which I find amusing to read, they may as well be selling durable goods.
The Kids ( under 35 ) that work at G.C. are there to make commissions, any return or adjustment takes time away from their potential of closing another sale, I do not consider this environment a music store, but this is what the general american public ( ignorantly and mistakenly ) believes is where they should buy their instruments because of the price point.
I would venture to say that 80% of the customers will not be playing a guitar 2 to 5 years from the purchase date because... (1) It has become apparent to them and painfully so, just how difficult it is to be a guitarist that can actually be labeled as a musician, instead of a guitar hero that just steps on a lot of gadgets that make/mimic horrendous noises.
(2) It is no longer cool to be pretending to be a musician, since in order to attain the goal of a Vai, Malmsteem, Clapton, Knopfler, Kottke, Kaukonen, Bensusan...etc...etc There is the requirement of spending much time in the pursuit for knowledge of Music Theory, Pedagogy and well quite a lot which will prevent you from socializing.

I do not think Fender is going to begin selecting which kind of Musical Instrument Stores are going to meet a certain criteria in order to be dealers.
Those horses left the corral long ago.

I and all of us can choose as to where to buy our Fender products. I will still check out a GC but I am often unmotivated to part with cash once I see the deplorable state of the product at these mega stores.

Sometimes this applies.... How Big is too Big to Fail

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"C'est parti mon Kiki "