this is why I answered the question in an abstract form, I knew that the OP had definitions of the word in mind. not every person feels the same way about the subject and in this thread all views expressed are just that. views which if allowed to be expressed make the thread interesting. an innocuous observation, carry on.

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you can save the world with your guitar one love song at a time it's just better, more fun, easier with a fender solid body electric guitar or electric bass guitar.

i see where your going with this and can respect what you believe in.
my opinion, she did break the law. im not saying for one second that i agree with that law, it was stupid and racial, but at that time it was the law just the same.
you dont have to break laws to get them changed.
thankfully the people on our nations highways dont feel the same.
"man this speed limit needs to be 80MPH screw it, lets just go 80 even though its 60MPH just to prove a point. people would get killed over negligence.
but, you are right, not all heros are our service men and women. we do have our every day hero's out there, and most go unoticed in my opinion.

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63supro
"The good thing is in a club situation, most of the patrons are trashed and really can't tell the difference."

So what are the criterea for being brave or a hero? Does a hero have to change or save a life? save a cat in a tree? save a child from drowning? rescue a life in a car accident?

so what if it means killing other human life in the process? is it justified or is that where the term 'Reluctant Hero' comes from?

All acts would be deemed as 'Brave' but what would be more than 'Bravery' to become 'Heroic'?

We have a story of a soldier who was awarded the V.C http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Cross which is the most rarest military galantry medal in the world, with only 13 recipients alive today- he did his job what he was paid to do. But whether he actually wants to be a hero is a different story. Whether it is because he is just too introvert in nature or the circumstances surrounding the reason why, is debateable.

Check it out, brilliant doco if you have the time:

http://www.nzonscreen.com/title/reluctant-hero-2008

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Blertles, thanks for posting a great documentary!

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you can save the world with your guitar one love song at a time it's just better, more fun, easier with a fender solid body electric guitar or electric bass guitar.

Fair enough. A hero is someone who goes far and beyond to do the right thing, probably selflessly and for the benefit of others, in a situation where the average behaviour of the majority would be perfectly acceptable and where many also behave badly - unheroically.

An example helps. In 1987 there was a famous disaster when a roll-on-roll-off ferry named The Herald of Free Enterprise emerged from Zeebrugge harbour in Belgium into heavy seas with its bow doors still open, took on water and due to an innate design flaw capsized very fast - too quickly for lifeboats to be launched and a disciplined evacuation to take place. 193 people died.



As the ship went over at speed most people concentrated on getting themselves out - perfectly reasonable. Some behaved very badly, shoving others aside to get ahead and even pushing people back to their deaths in order to save their own lives. But there was a story of one man who found a gap that people needed to cross to get to safety: he made a human bridge out of his own body so that others could climb across him and get out, so saving many people. Because this made him the last one he had no way to get himself out and died - and probably knew that was going to happen when he did what he did. The story was told by those he saved.

That's my idea of heroic.

The man was Michael Ian Skippen, he was head waiter on the ship and was postumously awarded the George Medal - though that official recognition is not what makes him a hero.

Cheers - C

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wow ceri, yes that too is a fine example of a hero.
what a story that is if ya try to picture it in your mind as you read it.

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63supro
"The good thing is in a club situation, most of the patrons are trashed and really can't tell the difference."

Where I come from, it's an elongated sandwich aka, "hoagie", "sub", "grinder", etc.

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You dig?

smartazz!

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63supro
"The good thing is in a club situation, most of the patrons are trashed and really can't tell the difference."

Perfect example Bro, I thought about how some one could qualify for the George and those heroic actions by Mr. Skippen is how. Thank you Ceri.

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you can save the world with your guitar one love song at a time it's just better, more fun, easier with a fender solid body electric guitar or electric bass guitar.

Hero Sandwich

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson

To me a hero is someone who is willing to put themselves second in order to help others. That can mean the obvious cases of our soldiers or public servants on law enforcement or fire departments or parents, teachers etc. who are willing to give everything they can to help others succeed regardless of their personal hopes and dreams.

Thats a good definition

Personally, my opinion is that when you have to kill someone to help others- even when they are firing back, Brave may be the best term, but certainly there is nothing heroic about killing human life, regardless of background or beliefs. Especially in todays conflicts.

Saving life without putting anyone elses in danger without much concern for your own would be more on the 'heroic' level.

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i just hope all those people realize the sacrafice that was made that day, and the
life that was given so that they may live.

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63supro
"The good thing is in a club situation, most of the patrons are trashed and really can't tell the difference."

i do see where you are going with this but there are hero's in battle.
you got to remember that in battle, those folks are there to kill you and they wont question it. sometimes it does come down to a kill or be killed situation in doing their
jobs to serve and protect. please remember, these folks are there so you dont have to be, and giving their lives to keep us/you free. sometimes you have to take a life in order to do so, because that guy is out to take yours and will do so given the opportunity.

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63supro
"The good thing is in a club situation, most of the patrons are trashed and really can't tell the difference."

I think a hero can be a lot simpler than is being made out here. I hero could very well be someone you have never heard of, but was brave enough to quit their addiction to alcohol, drugs, food, whatever.

Although it seems to make some angry, a hero might be the person driving the posted speed limit and therefore use just a little less fuel. Gotta be pretty brave for that these days!

A dad who gives up his golf game to go watch his child play a sport - big hero!

There are heroes everywhere. I'm pretty sure I've been a hero before, and I'm sure you have too.

Gridlok (a hero)