FACT : You'll all be at this point, sooner or later, if you live long enough. Time changes everything: that's only a problem if you move with the changes. (Don't ask me how I know this ... )

95% of my playing is fingerstyle. My strongest influences include classical, GOGD, Knopfler-Atkins-Kottke, EC, quite a few lap-style players, and (lately) Sonny Landreth.

Every time I pick up a guitar these days, the middle joint of my left index finger reminds me that I've been playing guitar for more than 50 years. Some call it arthritis, some call it high mileage. Call it what you want: the pain lasts for hours after I fret a few chords with that index joint folded tight.

I'm a musician, a guitarist -- so the docs' advice to "just stop playing" isn't an option. Aside from relearning chords for three-only fingers (w/o index), lap-slide is the most finger-friendly. Fretting chords Jeff-Healey-style works OK; learning that style is a slow process. Dobro/Weissenborn-style works OK too (perfect for the ailing finger), but you can't fret behind or in front of the slide very well, with only two spare fingers and the typically very high action.

( As for tapping: maybe later -- for now I'm trying to transpose the stuff I already know into a new style of getting it played with no pain.)

So I'm working on a "new" combination style that fits my needs: it's a bit of Jeff Healey, a bit of Andrew Winton and Kelly Joe Phelps, a bit of Ed Gerhard's Weissenborn music -- and a big dose of Sonny Landreth. That shakes out as: guitar in lap, face-up; medium-heavy strings, fairly high action (but not too high to fret behind the slide); open tunings (for now); Dunlop #213 thick-wall glass slide, on the left-index finger (nice tubular-glass splint!!), palm-down.

And yep: electric solid-body guitar. That gives me a strong neck/body, so it can handle heavier strings & higher action without the top/bridge-lifting worries of an acoustic instrument. It also gives me lots of control over the sound, and the long-sustain that works well for Landreth's sound.

And there's body-size. I've experimented with my '68 ES-335 in this "new" playing style: "thin" sure beats a thick-bodied acoustic guitar, but that wide lower bout places the bridge/strings/neck farther from my belly than I'd prefer. The Strat- shape, with double-cutaway, narrower body, and flat back seems best suited (and comfortable) for this style of playing.

Neck scale doesn't seem to be a biggie; the shorter scale gives you an extra reachable fret up near the nut, but it cramps your fretting when you're up the neck.

Which brings us to the BIG QUESTION:

NECK RADIUS is a huge factor.
Anytime you use a slide, string-damping and individual-string fingerpicking become primary. To play slide guitar decently, you must fingerpick, and you must dampen strings with both hands.

The wider and flatter (long-radius) the neck is, the easier time a player has both in fretting/damping individual strings, and in fingerpicking/damping with the right hand. A guitar that comes set up for a flatter neck will necessarily also have a flattish nut and bridge -- which leaves the option for a player just re-adjusting the bridge height and the tuning when he wants to change the guitar back to "standard" position fretted playing. These days there is a whole new acoustic-guitar market segment for "fingerstyle-friendly" wider-neck guitars. Unfortunately, I haven't found a similar trend in the solid-body electric offerings.

G&L has a signature model with a 1.75" wide neck, but its fretboard radius is "only" 13.75 inches and the single-humbucker@bridge is too limiting. Ibanez seems to have the widest/flattest/longest-radius fingerboards (15.75" - 16.92" radius) of the Strat-style guitars on the market, they also have lots of electronics/pickup options, and they are pretty well-made guitars.

Are there any Fender -- or other manufacturers' -- models that have a wide/long-radius fingerboard? At this point in my "experiment" it's hard to justify an upper-end, premium-price model: I'm looking for a quality instrument, minimal frills, a journeyman "player" model. If the "experiment" with this style of playing works out, I'll then consider a pricier guitar. I know that some of the mid-/upper-line Strats have a combination-radius fingerboard; from what I've seen, though, those mostly have too much side-to-side fretboard curvature to be ideal for my needs.

So what ideas & suggestions do you guys have?

Bob / bobwords

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Fingerpicking: it's not just for noses ! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

to have a topic that isnt like reading an essay!

Yeah, I hear you. It ain't exactly like it's "required reading", y'know?

I'm thinking if I'd wanted to ask, "My finger hurts -- what should I do?"
I would have asked that little soundbite on a lesser Forum.

Did I mis-judge the knowledge and abilities hereabouts?

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Fingerpicking: it's not just for noses ! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

After over 45 years of extensive playing my hands-especially the left-packed it in. My family doctor recommended a chiropractor who had great results working with people with carpal tunnel and cubital tunnel syndrome and she has worked wonders.She uses metal tools called Gravitz??? tools and manipulates the muscles and tissues around the affected areas and gave me stretches and excercises to do and my hands have improved tenfold. I also use a prescription solution called Pennsaid that I massage deeply into my hands about 4 times daily.
I didn't think that I'd ever play again but now thanks to my chiropractor I am starting to play more and more as the weeks go by.Maybe chiropractic would help in your case also.

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'65 Strat,65 Mustang,65 Jaguar,4 more Strats,3 vintage Vox guitars,5 Vox amps,'69 Bassman with a '68 2-15 Bassman cab,36 guitars total-15asst'd amps total,2 vintage '60s Hammond organs & a myriad of effects-with a few rare vintage ones.

Thanks for the "essay," guitslinger !

I might just try that route (Chiro has helped before, on other stuff.)

Either way, I think I'll pursue this fairly unique approach to [slide+fretting]. The learning experience alone [muting with both hands, unfamiliar open tunings, box-patterns in a verrrry different box] is worth the effort.

It's kind of like a garage project, too: "Aw, heck -- guess I'll be forced to buy yet another guitar. It's a health issue, y'know?"

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Fingerpicking: it's not just for noses ! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You might try asking "some other doctors" about the pain issues.
My doctors have helped me some with other drugs other than the typical 'pain killers' - and they are not habit forming, like many pain killers are. There is still 'some' pain - but is is more manageable now.

(I hope that wasn't too much of an 'essay' for some )

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In GOD We STILL Trust!!

GOD BLESS AMERICA!!

Couldn't you just put the slide on your index finger and play it in the normal position? And use your last three fingers to chord and pick along with the slide ?

slinger has a great idea above. also, try to redirect your diet. eat a lot more anti-inflamatory foods and cut out the flamitory foods. trust me on this, IT WORKS, but takes a couple months to get your body adjusted to it before you see the results.

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63supro
"The good thing is in a club situation, most of the patrons are trashed and really can't tell the difference."

no sir you have not. stay focused on the situation at hand.

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63supro
"The good thing is in a club situation, most of the patrons are trashed and really can't tell the difference."

My suggestion is to get a doctor to really find out what is wrong with your hand. Old is not an excuse. My mother recently had surgery for carpal tunnel and something called triggering finger. The tendon in you finger runs through loops (kind of like a belt) when the tendon frays a bit it get caught on the loop and you finger get stuck and it can be quite painful. She thought it was arthritis, but now her right hand is healed and she says iyt feels better than it has in the last 20 years, her left is still healing (surgery was only a week ago for that one). Right hand was in November and she was healed by the end of December.

Play when you can and take it easy until you really find out what is causing the problem.

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the vacuum store is a lot like the guitar store. but they do not attract the same clientele as the guitar store, cause if they did, the vacuum store would be loaded with a bunch of broke guys who just wanted to run the new vacuums.

I appreciate all the health-care suggestions. I already do most of the anti-inflammatory diet, stretching, second-opinion doctor visits, and the rest. That finger joint was injured years ago -- I've gotten lots of miles out of it since, but now the pretty much unanimous medical opinion is that surgery wouldn't help, the various forms of rehab (PT, chiro, etc) can at best hold the ground, but won't rebuild what just isn't there any more. I can use the finger to fret, carefully, but if I want to play every day, I have to using it very sparingly. The best read I'm getting from the orthopods is that the natural rebuild/repair rate at my age is at best pretty slow, so if I don't slow down the rate of overuse-damage I'm doing to it, it's only going to get worse.

I'm not complaining: it's been a good run, and I've enjoyed "regular" playing so much that I've never buckled down to learn to play slide guitar. I don't much like making lemonade (which I don't much like anyhow) out of the lemons God gives me -- but there's only maybe three things you can do in public with a straight finger: barring chords and holding a slide are two, and the other use is gonna get you swung on, unless you're danged careful which straight finger you're waving around.

I'll stick to slide: lots less hassle.

AND:


Excellent question. Heerza deal: to get a decent sound when you're playing slide-style, you MUST "dampen" (silence) the strings behind the slide (that is, between the slide and the nut.) If you don't, it's like you have a sliding fret with notes (vibrating string sections) ringing both behind and in front of that sliding fret. That only works well at the 12th fret (half-scale) position; anywhere else on the neck each string will be ringing on two different notes, on either slide of the slide. (Mostly when you buy a slide, nobody tells you that part. Lots of folks buy a slide, take it home and try it out for maybe ten minutes, get really tired of that gawd-awful dissonant-string howling-cat sound, and give it up. Once you get past that, string-damping with the right-hand fingers is an even better-kept secret. I'd tell you about that, too -- but then I'd have to shoot you! )

That basic behind-the-slide string-damping is done by dragging one or more fingers behind the slide, across the strings -- that is, you MUST keep at least one finger in position behind the slide-holding finger. When playing in the conventional position, you can put your slide on your middle (long) finger (Bonnie Raitt's choice), your ring finger (Duane & Derek Trucks' choice), or your pinky (EC, Sonny Landreth, Leo Kottke, lots of others). Even with the slide on the middle/long finger, you still have your index finger to drag behind, to damp the strings.

All I'm doing is turning the whole thing over, 180 degrees. Since I need to keep that wonky left index finger straight, I'm just turning both my guitar and my left hand over. That puts the slide on the finger closest to the bridge (as a pinky-finger-slide is in conventional playing position), and frees up the other three fingers to work behind the slide (toward the nut/headstock), damping strings and fingering behind-the-slide notes.

And for the essay-resistant: it's a LOT easier to do than it is to describe in words.

Probably the most amazing thing about the whole process -- including the learning part -- is the whole bit about fretting behind the slide. At first glance it seems like you're trying to fret "other" notes further behind the fret you're already fretting a chord behind . . .
But once you get your guitar set up right (with strings heavy but not too heavy, and the action higher than "normal" but not dobro-high) behind-slide fretting isn't too difficult to do, and it gives you some totally cool options.

. . . and if you think that face-up fretboard isn't calling out for some tapping to get worked in somewhere in your tunes, you just aren't using your musical imagination!

'S'all good -- I'm one of those players who'll just enjoy the rut I'm cruising in, until something comes along and forces me back into the fun of discovery. So far, so good.

btw -- anybody here have any guitar suggestions for a nice wide, flat neck on a steel-string electric? Essays or not -- that kinda was my original question . . .

Thanks, so far!

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OK. You deserve an answer, no matter how bad. Therefore, I would suggest buying a bolt on neck of your specs from Warmoth or somebody, and install it on a body of your choice. Have fun on your adventure in playing!

Get yourself a jar of Tiger Balm. Its an asian ointment, I used it when I taught martial arts and its good for muscle and joint pain. The red color is stronger and the white is weaker. Put it on overnight and after a couple of days you should notice a difference. You should be able to get it in your pharmacy.

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I take Cherry Extract capsules. The Cherry Extract has worked wonders with both my feet and hands, I too have been playing 45 years. They take a few weeks to start working. I also play a bit of slide. From one geezer to another, thanks for the essay and welcome to the forum.

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Life...... It's sexually transmitted and always fatal

I've discovered several guitars that might work really well.

G&L will put any of their several neck configurations on most any of their guitar bodies. They do make a nicely wide rosewood-fingerboard neck that's short scale (24-2/4") and is 1-3/4" wide at the nut. The fingerboard radius is 12" -- not as flat as some of the Alvarez models, but it's still fairly "flat."

As mentioned, several of the Alvarez solid body guitars have fingerboards with a nut width of 1-11/16ths, and fingerboard radius at either 400 mm (15.75") or 430 mm (16.9"). I'm not a huge Alvarez fan (they're OK, and they are mostly gorgeous), but the quality is decent and that's a seriously flat fingerboard.

My favorite so far, though, is the Godin Summit CT. It's a beautiful Les Paul style body, has mahogany body, flamed-maple top, mahogany neck with ebony fingerboard, 24-3/4" scale, 1-11/16ths at the nut, and the fingerboard radius is 16". It has two Seymour Duncan humbuckers, a 3-position selector switch, vol & tone knobs, and a nifty little mini-toggle that kicks in "revoicing" (sort of a "brite" switch) for either pickup. Street price is under $1000. I haven't played one yet, but it does look like a pick of the litter for my new approach to playing.

Here's a link -- enjoy!
http://www.godinguitars.com/godinsummitp.htm


Thanks for all the suggestions, folks.

Bob

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Fingerpicking: it's not just for noses ! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~