It's still guns, guns in the hands of the public. BTW I'm fully aware of the population difference, that's why I quoted the statistic the way I did. Instead of giving the running totals. If you read the statistics quoted again you'll see that the figures are completely comparable. As are the population centers, note my inclusion of Canada and Alaska in the North America figures. Included to give a figure continent. When I could have easily ommited their calming effect on that figure. Likewise my inclusion of all European countries, some have a much higher murder rate than the UK. I'm not one for twisting numbers to suit my point.

No guns in the public hands, less guns in criminal hands. When public ownership numbers rise so does criminal ownership.

Their instruments of death that have no part in reasonable society.

_________________
No no and no

Apparently that’s not the USA where criminals carry guns and can’t shoot worth a dam.

That is actually incorrect, violent crime rate increases cause law abiding citizens to arm themselves for defense. They don't have accurate statisics for criminal gun ownership. Yet in the US, handguns (the most heavly regulated type of gun in the UK but not illegal to own) only account for 50% of murders. So it is really 2.5 deaths per 100000. So 2.5 deaths per 100000 people (US 308 million pop) 1.28 deaths per 100000 (UK 61.8 million pop.) I didn't say you manipulated the numbers but instead (imo) you were not specific enough.

When you can show me a truely reasonable society, I might think about giving up my guns.

But I am willing to agree to disagree because I am sure we could have this debate for months on end and never convince each other to change their feelings on the subject.

_________________
the vacuum store is a lot like the guitar store. but they do not attract the same clientele as the guitar store, cause if they did, the vacuum store would be loaded with a bunch of broke guys who just wanted to run the new vacuums.