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Post subject: Re: Somebody talk some sense into me...
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:04 am
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Ok here goes.

(1) The most important is respiratory system. A commercial grade respiration system like 3M's R6211 system, it is a full wrap over nose and mouth with two filters which are replaceable.
It is going to cost about $30.00 but it is an OSHA approved system. You can buy them @ Lowes or Home Depot. Furthermore since the filters are replaceable, one of these systems will last for many years if well taken care of.
I disapprove of the paper type of filters as they are inadequate and cannot seal around the nose and mouth. Whichever type of finish you choose to spray, wearing a mask is a must. The long term effects of spray are quite dangerous.

(2) Eye wear safety glasses. Also at HD or Lowes. these should be the clear lens, full wrap around the eyes, not tight around the eyebrows or around the cheek bones because since you will be wearing a respiratory mask you need ventilation above and below otherwise the glasses will fog up on you.
So pick these at the same time as the mask as an integral unit. Polycarbonate lenses.
On these there is no need to spend a fortune, just make sure the label says shatter proof and have a safety check label. ( But the people at either Lowe's or HD can advise you )

(3) Gloves, you will need two types, disposable ones for handling paints, stains, solvents.
Also the type that are fabric and tight fitting, so that you can handle small items and use your fingers normally. " Firm Grip " has an entire line aimed at contractors to gardeners, make sure they fit well and are comfortable. These will be mostly for guarding against small scrapes and cuts from sanding, cutting, drilling.

(4) Also wear an apron, if not make sure you wear clothing that can be discarded if ruined, because you will spill and splash stuff on yourself.( wear an apron anyway )

(5) Also critically important, read all labels as to handling use and disposal and storage of any of the paints you will use.
Use only the recommended solvents recommended by that manufacturer. For example if you are using Minwax then use their recommendation for cleaners and solvents.
Under no circumstance ever use Lighter Fluid or any Highly Flammable liquids with low flashpoints.Such as Kerosene or Automotive fuel.
I never use any of those for anything but what they were designed for, no exceptions.
Do not let anyone talk you into using unsafe flammable liquids.

(6) Where you will spray the finishes must be away from any potential ignition source, such as a hot water heater, or home heating boiler.
Also just as a safety precaution, have a fire extinguisher nearby if you are going to be indoors doing this.
It is highly improbable that you would ever need the use of it if all directions are safely followed, but it gives you peace of mind.

Now that I gave you a daunting feeling, there is no need to be worried, but being cautious is key.
If you use waterbased products it will be musch simpler, but the eye and respiratory and all other precautions still apply.

P.S. Also wear a hat or at the very least a bandana over your hair and no loose hair, tie it up.

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Post subject: Re: Somebody talk some sense into me...
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:14 pm
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53magnatone wrote:
Now that I gave you a daunting feeling, there is no need to be worried, but being cautious is key.

Impressive :shock: You da' man, dude :!: :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Somebody talk some sense into me...
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:28 pm
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Thank You, I will take a Bow :lol:

One other item is that the respirators need to be cleaned after each day's use.
That means cleaning the inside where you breathe with rubbing alcohol or since they dismantle you can handwash them with mild (unscented) soap and water. Scented soaps contain dyes and fragrance chemicals which will attack the rubber mask. Then just dry with a face towel.
Also change the filters often.

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Post subject: Re: Somebody talk some sense into me...
Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:02 am
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53magnatone wrote:
Now that I gave you a daunting feeling, there is no need to be worried, but being cautious is key.

On the contrary, you've given me some great information and I really appreciate it. :) I can't wait to ask the people at the art studio about it this Saturday. They do all sorts of things there, including airbrush, so I would think they'd have somewhere I could safely work on my guitar. If not, some relatives have offered use of the back of their shop if I'd like. The only thing is that there's usually a lot of dust flying around and some people might complain if the smell hung in the air or I took up too much space.

I've also been toying with the idea of just getting a Fender body already finished off of ebay, but finding the right color, in nitro, at an affordable price is a challenge. But if I want to go with a burst I'd rather get one already finished because I don't think I could do a good DIY burst. The only thing is that neck heel, which can be done on an already finished body but it would probably look better if we did that on an unfinished body and then finished it afterward.

Well, I did make two important decisions today.
-I really want a two point system tremolo
-I should probably stick with import spacing
-I know for an absolute fact how thick I want the neck, and what shape

First, the bridge. I was setting up a MIM Standard Strat at work today and I had to set it up with the floating bridge. I normally keep mine locked down to the body. You can still use it, but you have to really work it and you can't pull up. My tech explained the difference between the six screw and two point tremolo systems and it seems like the two point would be the most stable if I wanted it to float a little bit.

Second, the spacing. I've played the Squier non stop for two years now. It fits like hand in glove, and I'm really familiar with it. I've tried playing the Highway One as much as possible, but it just doesn't feel as natural if that makes any sense. Honestly, I'd rather have an American bridge from a quality standpoint, but import spacing feels better to me. I don't have tiny hands, but they're smaller than an average guitar player's. For a 6' tall man, a Highway One would probably feel to him like the Squier feels to me.

Third, I found a guitar I really like the feel of. The EJ Strat was really, really nice but just a little on the thick/wide side for me. I played a Classic Player's 50's Strat (http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fender-Classic-Player-50s-Stratocaster-Electric-Guitar?sku=512766) and thought that it was extremely comfortable. A few measurements later and I realized that it's neck was nearly identical to the Squier's in thickness. Both are roughly 0.860 at the 1st fret and while the Squier stays about the same up the neck, the 50's Strat has a little bit more taper, ending up at roughly 0.895 at the 12th fret. And it's a V neck. If it were rosewood, had 22 humongous frets, a satin finish and a 12" radius then I'd consider just buying one. :lol: But it did help me narrow down my specs a lot. I also measured the Highway One and it was considerably thinner, which is probably why barre chords kill me on that guitar. So it's not a fluke that I find both those necks so comfortable, and now I know what a neck about as thick as my Squier's would feel like with a V profile. So I have a lot more confidence in it now.

Also, Ceri's pickups have just arrived today! The first piece of the puzzle. :D And now that I have a much clearer idea of my specs, I'm going to get the ball rolling on ordering the neck this weekend.

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Post subject: Re: Somebody talk some sense into me...
Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:15 am
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I should probably give an update on the jazz guitar situation too.

I found one which I really do like, after playing a whole bunch on them at guitar center and asking the options of several professional jazz guitarists I know. I think I've settled on a Cort Source. It's basically an ES-335 style guitar and I really love the tone and feel of it. It also comes in a satin finish, which I really like because it makes the neck feel more Strat like than others with a sticky glossy finish. The neck is not too thick or too thin and even stock the sound is really good. I kind of feel guilty about it, since I like it so much and it's not a Strat. :P It's $459, but since I work at the store I'll probably get something off of that. My boss is also really understanding when it comes to layaway payments, so I could pay it off in small increments over several months and have it in time for next semester. That way I can still sink most of my paycheck into college/future car savings. I only work part of a part time job, but when you factor in school and guitar practice, band practice and gigs it's all I can handle right now.

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Post subject: Re: Somebody talk some sense into me...
Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:41 am
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texasguitarslinger wrote:
On the contrary, you've given me some great information and I really appreciate it. I can't wait to ask the people at the art studio about it this Saturday. They do all sorts of things there, including airbrush, so I would think they'd have somewhere I could safely work on my guitar. If not, some relatives have offered use of the back of their shop if I'd like. The only thing is that there's usually a lot of dust flying around and some people might complain if the smell hung in the air or I took up too much space.


You will only need a space of 12 square feet or less, as far as dust, you can build yourself an enclosure with plastic sheeting that will keep the dust from entering that space while the neck and body dry. That is going to be a critical part of finishing the guitar. After you sand each time prior to spraying another coat, you will need to vacuum up all the dust from the body and neck as well as from the enclosed work area. You will get a few minuscule pieces of dust settling down but keeping 99 percent of it away will allow you to have a great looking finish.
The last clear coat is when you will need to eliminate dust as much as possible.

texasguitarslinger wrote:
I've also been toying with the idea of just getting a Fender body already finished off of ebay, but finding the right color, in nitro, at an affordable price is a challenge. But if I want to go with a burst I'd rather get one already finished because I don't think I could do a good DIY burst. The only thing is that neck heel, which can be done on an already finished body but it would probably look better if we did that on an unfinished body and then finished it afterward.

I would not attempt a sunburst on my first project, it is really difficult to get the desired effect where the colors resemble the color spectrum effect. This takes quite a bit of practice at blending and feathering. I won't explain because if you don't know what it is I'm referring to than you are not ready to attempt this finish for now.
The easiest ( which will still require a lot of experimentation ) is the clear coat over a translucent color like the white we discussed in an earlier post.

At this point, my advice would be to make a list of everything you want to do/have on this guitar.
Then take that list and simplify it by deleting the phases which are going to be extremely challenging. For a first build I would stay with the simplest layout, because you are going to make mistakes and the more difficult ( two point trem ) the layout the longer it will take you and the greater the risk for a project killing mistake.
I like the two point trem system but because it relies upon two pivot points, the layout and install of the anchor bolts/inserts are critical to the function of the unit as a whole.
My advice is to stay with a vintage 6 screw set up, properly set up to float it works very well unless you are planning on performing Steve Vai's and George Lynch compositions :wink:

This project is a test-bed and because of the learning curve, stay with a familiar set-up that you have on your current guitars, you'll be amazed at how much you will learn from just this project.

texasguitarslinger wrote:
Second, the spacing. I've played the Squier non stop for two years now. It fits like hand in glove, and I'm really familiar with it. I've tried playing the Highway One as much as possible, but it just doesn't feel as natural if that makes any sense. Honestly, I'd rather have an American bridge from a quality standpoint, but import spacing feels better to me. I don't have tiny hands, but they're smaller than an average guitar player's. For a 6' tall man, a Highway One would probably feel to him like the Squier feels to me.


I switch back and forth between a rosewood neck strat, a maple neck all with 009-046 strings, a GS acoustic steel string with 11-54 strings, a Viola, a Violin and a Classical guitar with nylon strings. Not a Taylor styled nylon strings which has a narrow neck but a standard Classical guitar.
I have no problems with the adjustment for differing neck widths, it is just about getting used to switching a lot. You'll be surprised at how adaptable your hands become, think back to when you were first learing how to play and how difficult it seemed to stretch your fingers for chord shapes :?:

I advise simplifying or you will find this project will take month's instead of weeks.
Just the painting finishing part is going to take a few weeks before the finish is cured enough to be able to be assembled.

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Post subject: Re: Somebody talk some sense into me...
Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:30 am
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53magnatone wrote:
For a first build I would stay with the simplest layout, because you are going to make mistakes and the more difficult ( two point trem ) the layout the longer it will take you and the greater the risk for a project killing mistake.
I like the two point trem system but because it relies upon two pivot points, the layout and install of the anchor bolts/inserts are critical to the function of the unit as a whole.
My advice is to stay with a vintage 6 screw set up, properly set up to float it works very well unless you are planning on performing Steve Vai's and George Lynch compositions :wink:

This project is a test-bed and because of the learning curve, stay with a familiar set-up that you have on your current guitars, you'll be amazed at how much you will learn from just this project.


My tech is going to be there helping or supervising the entire time and I'm sure if I have any trouble he'll be able to correct it. Installing the trem would probably be something he would do, as well as installing the neck, cutting the heel contour, or anything else I feel uncomfortable about doing by myself. He's going to use the build as an opportunity to teach me a lot of things beyond restringing, polishing frets and installing input jacks. So I'm not too worried about things which are a little more complicated, I'm in good hands. :)
Quote:
I switch back and forth between a rosewood neck strat, a maple neck all with 009-046 strings, a GS acoustic steel string with 11-54 strings, a Viola, a Violin and a Classical guitar with nylon strings. Not a Taylor styled nylon strings which has a narrow neck but a standard Classical guitar.
I have no problems with the adjustment for differing neck widths, it is just about getting used to switching a lot. You'll be surprised at how adaptable your hands become, think back to when you were first learing how to play and how difficult it seemed to stretch your fingers for chord shapes :?:


I switch around between different guitars too, and I don't really have any problems with it. It's just that I still find my Squier to be the most comfortable out of them all, and I'd like to stick with what I know I like best. :) As far as maple of rosewood goes, honestly it's more of a cosmetic thing to me. I don't hear much if any difference between them, and they feel only slightly different.
Quote:
I advise simplifying or you will find this project will take month's instead of weeks.
Just the painting finishing part is going to take a few weeks before the finish is cured enough to be able to be assembled.


True. I'll get a list of parts together now that I have the specs set in stone.

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Post subject: Re: Somebody talk some sense into me...
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:27 am
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You know, I've been doing a lot of research on guitar finishing and I don't really think I'm up to it. It's not that I think I couldn't do it, it's just that I don't have time for it. And since I'd have to find somewhere to do it other than my house I'd have to constantly make extra trips to spray another coat or sand it. And even if I could do it at my house, I still would have to spend quite a bit of time just prepping for it.

Which leaves me with two remaining options.
-Buy an unfinished body, drill holes for tremolo and contour the neck heel and pay someone else to finish it for me.
-Buy a finished body, mod for bridge if necessary, and contour the neck heel making it not so pretty in that spot. I wouldn't get to pick the routing, drilling, and I may have to compromise on the weight. But on the plus side, it would give me the option of getting a burst.

The trouble is that it would cost about $450-500 for option #1 or at least $300-450 for option #2. I was originally budgeting about $300 for the neck and $250 for the body (including DIY finishing supplies). I'm thinking that it might be closer to $300 now that I have a better idea of what DIY finishing supplies I'd need. So financially, DIY still makes the most sense unless I can find a deal on ebay. But I'd honestly rather have someone else do it.

Other than the body the parts I need are:
-Tuning Machines
-Neck Plate
-Input Jack/Jack Plate
-250K Pots
-Five Way Switch
-Tremolo
-Pickguard/Back Plate (color to be determined after I know what I'm getting as far as the body goes)

Things like screws, extra wiring, and plastic parts can be ordered from work.

I've been looking into the tremolos too, and from playing a bunch of guitars I'm wondering if nut width is a bigger factor than string spacing. I'm finding that Mexican guitars with import string spacing and a 1.650" (42mm) nut width feel the best to me. The trouble is trying to find a two point bridge with import string spacing and a solid steel block. I'd like to use one of these, http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=fender+classic+player+tremolo&_sacat=0&_odkw=fender+american+tremolo&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313 , but I don't know how they compare to the American version.

I've tried googling to find answers on string spacing, but in both cases all I turned up were threads or posts that I had made. One from yesterday, one from over a year ago when I stripped the block on my Squier and was looking for a replacement bridge. :lol: I always assumed there were only two string spacings you could get on a Fender Strat, import (2 1/16") and American (2 3/16"). And I know that sometimes a MIM guitar will have the 2 3/16" spacing (like the Jimmie Vaughan Strat) and vice versa. My question is are those in fact the only two string spacings you can get on a Fender and what does screw spacing have to do with it? Someone on another thread mentioned some guitars have wide screw spacing and narrow string spacing (Highway One, Amercian Special), but does that mean those guitars have 2 1/16" spacing like MIMs?

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Post subject: Re: Somebody talk some sense into me...
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:30 pm
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texasguitarslinger,

I have a few extra parts lying around the house. I have a guitar that I modified that I will no longer need the parts (because I am never giving up this guitar....ever).

I have:

1. a good set of Fender branded stock Ping tuning machines from my American Special
2. 3 brand new Fender 250k pots still in the package
3. a 4 hole chrome neck plate taken off my Highway 1
5. white knobs, tremolo tip, and a WBW(?) Tremolo access plate also from my Highway 1.

Most of this was going to be for my Squier modification project I was going to do, but before I assembled all the parts for it, I realized that the Blacktop Stratocaster was the exact guitar I was looking for in the first place. The parts I do have are yours if you want them. I will look through this thread to see if your Parts Address is in here somewhere. If you know it is not, could you PM me the address that you want these parts sent to? Also let me know what parts you want or don't want. I will box them up and send it some time after Friday March 25th (payday...so I can UPS or FED-Ex it to you).

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Post subject: Re: Somebody talk some sense into me...
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:35 pm
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I forgot about the option I first thought of for finishing it, staining it. Easy, relatively cheap and not as time consuming. Although I have found a place willing to let me use their spray booth. It's not dust free, but it's not beyond the realm of possibly to make it dust free either. I'll have to think about it some more, but I'm getting somewhere. :)

rkreisher wrote:
texasguitarslinger,

I have a few extra parts lying around the house. I have a guitar that I modified that I will no longer need the parts (because I am never giving up this guitar....ever).

I have:

1. a good set of Fender branded stock Ping tuning machines from my American Special
2. 3 brand new Fender 250k pots still in the package
3. a 4 hole chrome neck plate taken off my Highway 1
5. white knobs, tremolo tip, and a WBW(?) Tremolo access plate also from my Highway 1.

Most of this was going to be for my Squier modification project I was going to do, but before I assembled all the parts for it, I realized that the Blacktop Stratocaster was the exact guitar I was looking for in the first place. The parts I do have are yours if you want them. I will look through this thread to see if your Parts Address is in here somewhere. If you know it is not, could you PM me the address that you want these parts sent to? Also let me know what parts you want or don't want. I will box them up and send it some time after Friday March 25th (payday...so I can UPS or FED-Ex it to you).


Sounds great! I haven't posted the address, it's just by PM. I'll send you one in a minute. :D

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Post subject: Re: Somebody talk some sense into me...
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:57 pm
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All right, here's the updated parts list.

Needed:
-Input Jack/Jack Plate
-Five Way Switch
-Tremolo
-Pickguard/Back Plate (after I know what color the body/neck is going to be)

Have:
-Pickups
-Tuning Machines
-Neck Plate
-250K Pots

I also have the neck specs ready to go pending what tremolo/string spacing I end up with. And I have to wait on the tremolo until I know what body I end up with. It's like a puzzle.

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Post subject: Re: Somebody talk some sense into me...
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:02 pm
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texasguitarslinger wrote:
I forgot about the option I first thought of for finishing it, staining it. Easy, relatively cheap and not as time consuming. Although I have found a place willing to let me use their spray booth. It's not dust free, but it's not beyond the realm of possibly to make it dust free either. I'll have to think about it some more, but I'm getting somewhere. :)

rkreisher wrote:
texasguitarslinger,

I have a few extra parts lying around the house. I have a guitar that I modified that I will no longer need the parts (because I am never giving up this guitar....ever).

I have:

1. a good set of Fender branded stock Ping tuning machines from my American Special
2. 3 brand new Fender 250k pots still in the package
3. a 4 hole chrome neck plate taken off my Highway 1
5. white knobs, tremolo tip, and a WBW(?) Tremolo access plate also from my Highway 1.

Most of this was going to be for my Squier modification project I was going to do, but before I assembled all the parts for it, I realized that the Blacktop Stratocaster was the exact guitar I was looking for in the first place. The parts I do have are yours if you want them. I will look through this thread to see if your Parts Address is in here somewhere. If you know it is not, could you PM me the address that you want these parts sent to? Also let me know what parts you want or don't want. I will box them up and send it some time after Friday March 25th (payday...so I can UPS or FED-Ex it to you).


Sounds great! I haven't posted the address, it's just by PM. I'll send you one in a minute. :D


I just responded to the PM. Send it out this Friday or Saturday.

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Post subject: Re: Somebody talk some sense into me...
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:35 pm
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Hi to you, I read your post today and all I can offer is this, creating your own custom is a good way to go, then it's yours, if funds permit!. another is to keep an eye on E-bay, some very good fenders strats there, eg, fender strat, deluxe50's RI custom, mim,as new condition!. Item # 320657710785, location- Pocatello, ID,US, current bid- $315.00, seller info rcmsolo(267). Very nice for the price and pretty rare, love my srv but I really would like to have this stat as well, all US hardware and gold plateing, a great platform to build
upon or leave it alone and enjoy. Worth a look for shure, but hurry,only 8hrs left to bid and I'am looking at it as well, who knows the crew might check it out for you and decide
to send it on over to you. Anyways I hope you take the advise of the forum, as it's very
good and dependable info, not that you don,t already have a good knowlage of what your doing with strats, but knowlage given is a blessing to. Thanks.


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Post subject: Re: Somebody talk some sense into me...
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:21 pm
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alexander-57 wrote:
keep an eye on E-bay, some very good fenders strats there, eg, fender strat, deluxe50's RI custom, mim,as new condition!. Item # 320657710785, location- Pocatello, ID,US, current bid- $315.00, seller info rcmsolo(267). Very nice for the price

Interesting. At this moment (four hours to go) it still stands at $315 which would be an excellent price for that guitar in good condition. Lot of bidders though: I bet the price will go higher in the last few seconds...

It's not a Deluxe, but it is a MIM Classic '50s and the ones I've looked at in shops in the last two or three years have been really good quality instruments at that point in the catalog. The build of these things has come on in leaps and bounds. A great Strat even at full price brand new.

BTW: I'm struggling to remember when there was a Classic '50s in the range in Shoreline Gold with gold hardware? Did I just miss it, or is this an FSR?

Cheers - C

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Post subject: Re: Somebody talk some sense into me...
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:06 pm
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Interesting, I'm glad I decided to check for new posts before dinner. One hour left. I wish I could know whether or not it has a 12" radius. Maybe it has gold hardware because it's a 2006 and that was Fender's 60th anniversary? I don't want to get another guitar that I 80% like, I want to get something I don't have any regrets about. :)

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Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

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