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Post subject: Re: Somebody talk some sense into me...
Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:30 pm
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I just talked to my guitar tech earlier today and he said that I'm looking at a discount of roughly 50% if I go with Allparts for the body. :D The contouring thing is no problem for us to do. Neither is the staining.

Allparts has a one piece Ash body for the same cost as a two piece Ash. I'm thinking Ash will look really nice once it's stained too. For anyone who has or has played an Ash Strat, is there a distinct difference between it and Alder? Also, is a one piece body a cosmetic thing or is there a difference in tone?

Also, will the same routed body work for either a MIM or MIA bridge?

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Post subject: Re: Somebody talk some sense into me...
Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:56 pm
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texasguitarslinger wrote:
Allparts has a one piece Ash body for the same cost as a two piece Ash. I'm thinking Ash will look really nice once it's stained too. For anyone who has or has played an Ash Strat, is there a distinct difference between it and Alder? Also, is a one piece body a cosmetic thing or is there a difference in tone?

Also, will the same routed body work for either a MIM or MIA bridge?

Hi TGS: there's those that will strongly disagree with this so be clear, it's just my own opinion. But in my experience the differences between those bodies are mostly cosmetic. I think ash often has a more interesting grain than alder so it can be a nice choice for a transparent finish. But alder can be pretty too!

Again, in a million years I can't hear a sonic difference between one, two, three pieces or more in a body. But there's those that say they can: deep respect to their ears.

For sure, a one piece body can often look nicer because there is no seam, and if you can get it for the same price as a two-piece one that is an unusual and attractive deal. Go for it!

Mexican and American tremolo bridges will fit in the same body cavities. However, on the "vintage" six-screw bridges the spread of those mounting screws can be different. As a general principle I'd go for an American spec one with the 56 mm spacing from center to center of the two outside screws, simply because that'll give you the most choices for upgrades if you ever need it. Including some MIM bridges.

But none of that affects the choice of body - until you start drilling holes for those bridge screws.

Cheers - C

PS: Busy days - I shall be visiting the post office tomorrow...

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Post subject: Re: Somebody talk some sense into me...
Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:27 pm
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Yeah, I've never really been able to distinguish a difference in tone from one body to another either. I can tell when you change the type of guitar, like a mahogany Les Paul or like my Peavey T-60, which is swamp ash. But neither are Strats, so there's a lot of other reasons they would sound different. Which actually reminds of one other question I was going to ask. My T-60 is made of swamp ash and it's so heavy it starts to hurt after a few songs live, which doesn't make it very practical for gigging. Is all swamp ash like that? Because the ash body I was looking at is swamp ash.

Well, I think I've narrowed it down to three. I'm looking at roughly half price for any of these too.

Alder,
http://www.allparts.com/Stratocaster-Alder-Body-p/sbo.htm

Swamp Ash,
http://www.allparts.com/Stratocaster-1-Piece-Ash-Body-p/sbao-1pc.htm

or something kind of interesting, a Thinline Strat,
http://www.allparts.com/Stratocaster-Thinline-Ash-Body-p/sbao-tl.htm

Has anyone ever played a Strat Thinline? I've played a Tele Thinline before, but how would that change the tone of a Strat? I'm thinking it might be really cool, but I don't know if I want to go that far out there or just stick with regular alder.

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Post subject: Re: Somebody talk some sense into me...
Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:16 pm
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Are you planning on staining, or painting. The swamp ash looks cool for a stain or burst. If just painting, the alder is cool. I have never seen a Stratocaster Thin Line, not sure if I would go for that at this time. It could be a bust. Get your dream body first, then play around on your next build.

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Post subject: Re: Somebody talk some sense into me...
Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:45 am
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rkreisher wrote:
Are you planning on staining, or painting. The swamp ash looks cool for a stain or burst. If just painting, the alder is cool. I have never seen a Stratocaster Thin Line, not sure if I would go for that at this time. It could be a bust. Get your dream body first, then play around on your next build.


Yeah, you're right. I'm going to stain it, which was the main reason I'm leaning towards the one piece ash. And the thinline thing is cool, but I think it's best to play it safe now. :)

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Post subject: Re: Somebody talk some sense into me...
Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:37 am
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rkreisher wrote:
Are you planning on staining, or painting. The swamp ash looks cool for a stain or burst. If just painting, the alder is cool. I have never seen a Stratocaster Thin Line, not sure if I would go for that at this time. It could be a bust. Get your dream body first, then play around on your next build.

You're talking a 'chambered' body here, less wood and of different weight and tonal character.

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Post subject: Re: Somebody talk some sense into me...
Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:48 am
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Since you have decided on staining, look into the Minwax line of stains and Clear Coat.
As we are on the experimental stage ( nothing outlandish ) my suggestion for clear coating is Minwax Polycrylic.
It is water based, thus easy to clean up and/or dilute for a sprayer, can also be sprayed from aerosol cans ( much easier and I highly advise it for a first build.) It is available in satin, semi gloss and gloss. It also dries within 1/2 hour, ready to sand with 600+ between coats in about 2 hours or when it doesn't gum up on the sandpaper.

I just finished my " stratopartster " rebuild, used polycrylic for the neck over colonial maple stain. This stain gives an orange/red tint very similar to the look of an old, well played neck.
A word of caution on staining, whichever body you decide on, alder or ash as well as for the neck, have a couple of scrap pieces of the same wood to experiment with the amount of stain to be rubbed on. ( soft cotton cloth, stain is rubbed on, left to soak in for a couple of minutes than rubbed off, so you get an even coat ) hence why the need for a sample piece.
Stains will react differently from alder to ash as well as from one piece of ash to another from a different tree. It depends how the grain is and wether one piece is more porous than another. Sounds a bit confusing but once you experiment on a scrap piece you'll see.
The color depth of the stain will be dependent on how many coats you apply, the more coats the darker the shade. One coat should be enough, perhaps two..

Minwax has a website with a lot of info, a wide selection of stains ( you can go to a hardware store and buy small sample cans to experiment on your scrap wood.
One bit of caution once stain is applied it is difficult to remove since it soaks into the wood and therefore has to be sanded out.

I have to upload my " stratoparster " project to Photobucket than I will post pics on this thread.

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Post subject: Re: Somebody talk some sense into me...
Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:22 pm
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Thanks for the tips 53magnatone, I'll look into that.

Well, I'm on the brink of ordering the neck now. I think I've come up with some specs I like. It's just a matter of deciding which one to run with.

My two favorite necks are the one on my Squier, and the Eric Johnson signature. I asked if people who owned an EJ Strat would measure their neck thickness and I measured my Squier. The EJ is 21.2 mm (0.835 inch) at 1st & 23.8 mm (0.937 inch) at 12th. My Squier is 21.91 mm (0.864) at the 1st and 22.03 mm (0.871) at the 12th, neither counting the fret. So the Squier is kind of the happy medium of the EJ, and the EJ though it's a little thicker farther up is just as comfortable to play because of it's soft V contour.

So the two possibilities I'm thinking of for the new neck is either a soft V or asymmetrical contour that starts at about 0.830 or 0.840 and tapers up 0.750 like they recommend. Whichever contour is easiest to get my thumb over. I like soft V necks, but I also like the round back of the Squier which reminds me more of the asymmetrical contour. Does anyone have any experience playing asymmetrical necks? And I know I'm definitely going for 6100 frets and a 12" radius.

Here's the page that explains everything about the back contours and thickness. http://www.usacustomguitars.com/contours.html

As far as string spacing/nut width I'm still on the fence. American spacing and a wider nut are easier for chords and the narrow import spacing of my Squier feels a little cramped after I play on my Highway One for a while. On the other hand, when I'm playing lead I'm all over the fretboard and when I'm trying to play faster the strings kind of feel better closer together. So there are trade offs either way. But I think the EJ neck was very comfortable and Ceri has a point about better choice of upgrades so I'm leaning towards American spacing. With a 42 mm nut width like the EJ. The Highway One is a little wider at 43 mm, but I like it a little narrower than that. 41-42 mm for sure.

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Post subject: Re: Somebody talk some sense into me...
Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:34 pm
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Just my opinion only TGS, but I'd go MIA all the way. Of course it's up to you as it's your great build,the one you've been wanting. You don't want to have any regrets later. Good luck and looking forward to the final product!! :wink:

Keep us posted on your progress!! 8)


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Post subject: Re: Somebody talk some sense into me...
Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:21 pm
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[quote="texasguitarslinger"]So the two possibilities I'm thinking of for the new neck is I like soft V necks, but I also like the round back of the Squier which reminds me more of the asymmetrical contour. Does anyone have any experience playing asymmetrical necks? And I know I'm definitely going for 6100 frets and a 12" radius.
Here's the page that explains everything about the back contours and thickness. http://www.usacustomguitars.com/contours.htmlquote]

The new American Deluxe necks are compound radius both in the "modern C'' and soft-V versions. Try the feel of the Ernie Ball Axis, and the EVH guitar for an assymetric neck. There's a bit of assymmetry in the SRV neck. As far as the web site is concerned, that's one take on cross-sections of several examples which are available online. The key to the necks described in the lower half of the page is identifying the artists associated with the descriptors. EB assymetric would be Van Halen. The Clapton V-neck is a very distinctive neck carve, unlike any other Fender offers. So is the neck on the '57VHR.

Doc

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Post subject: Re: Somebody talk some sense into me...
Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:26 pm
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As i posted earlier, I'm posting a few pics of my " Stratopartster " as it is nearing completion save a few issues with figuring out the electronics layout.

This is the various bodies and necks prior to the lay out decisions.
This is the MIA body as bought for $125.00

Image


There are actually 2 1/2 strats here. (1) a J.B. Player strat clone which I've had for 20+ years ( not used for this build , but for another HSS Stratopartster. (2) An MIA body which was bought as is sans neck. (3) A brand New Squier Bullet as the organ donor. On the following pics the Squier Neck was used, the body will become the HSS build ( but that's for another thread altogether.

Image

After sanding, painting, staining and clear coating, the MIA body with what was the Bullet Squier neck, which underwent a complete fret flattening, dressing etc.. prior to assembly.

Image

Pickguard was part of the original MIA body, pups are from my old MIM Player's Deluxe,
layout is 1 Vol. and 2 TBX tone pots, one for the bridge, the other for Neck and Mid pup.

Image

This is the close up of the neck after staining with Minwax Colonial Maple and clear coating with Minwax gloss Polycrylic. The comparison is a standard Poly finished neck. (J.B. Player )

Image

This is the final setup, minus the tuners ( Grover Mini Rotomatics ) next pic.

Image

Grover Mini Rotos. 405C6 ( an older version bought for a bargain.

Image

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Last edited by 53magnatone on Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Somebody talk some sense into me...
Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:54 pm
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I should add a bit more info, the body was painted with 5 coats of Krylon black and 5 coats of Krylon clear, all from aerosol cans.
The neck was One coat of Minwax Colonial Maple stain rubbed on and 5 coats of Minwax Polycrylic (water based).

Total cost for this project is $300.00. This covers the purchase of the Squier organ donor, the Grover tuners, pots and switches, paints and pup covers.
The rest was 6 weeks of patience and stripping, sanding, painting, redrilling, set-up and etc..etc..

Yes the headstock "Fender Stratopartster " logo is freehand as this whole build was an experiment and I did not feel comfortable with ordering decals ( We all know Why ) to apply.
Either way there are numbers and other hidden ID letters which would prevent this from ever being passed off as a genuine Fender Strat.

There were a couple of minor problems but nothing that wasn't resolved overnight.
The point on a build and to your build " TGS " is to have everything planned out and revised as far as specs and fit prior to assembling.
Believe us when we say that, when something doesn't fit it becomes very time consuming and thus explodes your budget in order to remedy the situation.

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Post subject: Re: Somebody talk some sense into me...
Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:53 pm
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Very cool, that body turned out great! Where did you do it, and did you need any special equipment for it?

I've been playing around with Guitar Builder a lot, I'll post some screen shots later. :)

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Post subject: Re: Somebody talk some sense into me...
Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:03 am
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Follow your heart.
All input is relevant....But....
You know what you want... :wink:
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Post subject: Re: Somebody talk some sense into me...
Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:07 am
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By the way..
I love that blue fender logo on the head..
(My favorite color)
Rock on..
"Bud"


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