as cool as this Behringer city is, for some reason it scares the crap out of me...don't know why yet, but it does.

If anyone wants to learn more about sweatshops and their workers, check out Naomi Watts book No Logo...very eye opening in term of both foriegn labor and the branding of our world.

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CREDO ELVEM IPSUM ETAIM VIVERE

No flame here Bill, I completely agree with you. We've completely lost the ability to produce. Our governments have had us on a employment shift for the last 25 years away from manufacture and into management. The NHS in the UK is a shining example of over management, more managers than beds for patients.
The only stable economies in the world are the ones based on produce. Certainly not the ones based on ever escalating property prices, we just saw that bubble burst. Yet we've allowed ourselves to be pushed back into that old, failed system. It will happen again, soon maybe 20 years away, maybe 50. Personally I suspect sooner, we the UK have no sterling to back our currency anymore, so we're on exceptionally shaky ground. I don't know how much of the gold reserve America sold off to fund the bank bail outs.
What were seeing here is a economic shift of power from the west to the east, much like the industrial revolution in England circa 1800-1900. Eastern economy growth is staggering. Coupled with a super strong military. The last time China disclosed any information about their military numbers it was something like 1.2M as infantry, 40% of which being equipped with heavy artillery. Imagine seeing that lot march down your street! I don't think it will happen, they've already beat us through finance. What does scare me is the idea of a far eastern invasion of the middle east.
What really bemuses me is the notion our lords and masters have that we will in some way continue to manage eastern labour. A brief scan of eastern history will show fierce national pride from just about everywhere. They won't wear being lorded over by westerners for long. Whilst I agree with both possible courses of action concerning sweatshops, partially. I think that the complete boycott idea is a little misguided. These people don't work for someone of their own nationality, they work for people who live in big houses in our cities
Like I said previous, we'll be the ones in the sweatshops soon. When the far east calls time on it, it will start to happen here. In my home city of Birmingham there was a spate of raids on sweatshops within the city during the 90's. Someone will always end up being exploited. The way things are going with our economies crumbling and other economies growing, it's got to be us sooner or later.

Tax imports and all you will do is worsen the plight of the workers, the big boss aint gonna see his profit margin disappear. What we really need (though I utterly hate the idea of it, because it's so socialist) is to some how cap payments to company owners, including banking bosses. Whilst finding a way of keeping them operating on our shores at all. Were fast becoming little fish in a very big pond. Thats why we had to bail out the banks, despite banking bosses getting yearly bonus's that would make a good dent on the banks debt. If we hadn't they'd have just taken their business to other countries that would. Leaving us with more people on the dole as well as stripping us of the only basket we have any eggs in, financial managment.

A good example of that. The HSBC. HongKong Shanghai Banking Corporation despite suffering losses of $17.2Bil/ £8.7Bil on 3/3/08 paid £27.8mil to 3 top bankers on 1/3/10. Whilst still being £1.7Bil in debt.

Now that to most of us is silly money. Astronomical amounts that we can't imagine. There is a difference in the way a billion is counted in our nations. The US has a billion as being 1000,000,000. Which is a paltry sum compared to the UK's billion of 1000,000,000,000, a million million. The information about HSBC above was taken from Reuters UK.
A prime example of how top heavy we are. No wonder our nations are eager to import labour into the country to work on the cheap.

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No no and no

Thanks Nikki, I'm glad Im not alone here... The thing that really scares the hell out of me is the that the Chinese currency is funny money. I think its backed by exports only... And since We (Americans) find it to be a bottomless pit for loans... What happens when it collapses??? And it will collapse...

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Hey, Boy Blue is back!

Papa-J

If you ever get chance look on youtube for the factory tour. It's just like a German factory, clean as a good hospital, everything orderly and all the workers smiling.
It looks like the Mercedes plant from the outside.
That is just typical good German business conduct.

Behringer provide great accomodation, entertainment, medical and social facilities on site for their workers.
You really have to hand it to Mr B. Their a enourmous company, absolutely gigantic. They cover the whole of the music industry not just guitars. And yet they show the world how to treat employees properly too. Whilst still selling products at a real world price kids can afford.
Exactly the same can be said for Fender Mexico. Look at the factory tours, good clean working enviroment. Everyone seems happy, though busy. The workers are paid a very fair wage and get to knock off early on a Friday if the quota is done.

Bill China has had more gold than anyone since forever. I really think that if archeologists find the garden of Eden one day. It'll be there. Wasn't imperial city called the Forbiden City? Pictures here will show you why.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbidden_City

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No no and no

Thanks, that was quite interesting... but Im still concerned about the stability of their currency
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_currency

At any rate... I am sorry for the condition of these people...

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Hey, Boy Blue is back!

bill you are correct. there needs to be a heavy tax on imported product whos companies
are based in america but product made overseas. i think i said that right lol

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63supro
"The good thing is in a club situation, most of the patrons are trashed and really can't tell the difference."

i agree that is one way to level the playing field, BUT we have a treaty with China (Thank you Bill Clinton) that prevents us from taxing there imports.

A better way would be to enforce Patten law and start confiscating all the imported crud they ship to us that has been pirated from the rightful patten owners.

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Marriage is like playing cards...

At first all you want are Hearts and Diamonds.

But in the end, all you really want is a Club and a Spade.

my g.friend has been to several of the 3rd world countries.
ok shes all for human equal rights and totally against the slave labor
camps throughout the world. (what she calls them)
she told me one night as we were talking that we sometimes confuse
what we see when it comes to this topic. she said that in a lot of these places
these people and the situation isnt exactly as we here see it.
yeah sure some (not all ok guys) of the places are paying what we see as very low wages (to us in the wealthier countries) but to them, thats what their
economy requires. in other words, where we need several hundred a week or more to survive, they need nothing close to that to equal the same living. when we hear of how little they get paid we automaticly assume they are being mistreated and paid nothing for their labors.
shes not saying that this is every situation that we hear about ok, but it is a lot of the situation we see and misunderstand.
what brought the topic up is we were talking one night about the country of panama.
she has duel citizenship. she goes over several times a yr on business and is often in the forests for days on end. she said that when she arrives in town she goes to the hotel
and drops off everything, then hits the towns streets looking for workers and usually gets about 3 of the very less fortunate. she pays them $10/15 a day and they follow her and carry just about everything and they stay working hard to the very last minute of the day, and always first on the job site in the AM. i laughed and called her a slave laborist. she got bent quick. this was back when we first met now ok.
she buys their food for the work day as well as the pay. 98% of her work is volunteer work so everything is pretty much out of her pocket. she told me that a cop in that place makes about $600 a month including over time. in a two week period these guys make $140 or better, plus had all their food paid for. she said in a lot of cases this is enough to turn these guys and their famlies lives around and headed in the right direction. she said for a group of 4 to go out to eat and eat the very best in the area and have drinks to boot and a fine dining experience, look to spend about $25-$30.
thats for all 4 plus a good tip. she says after that is seen a couple times you will be considered very rich and you will get offered the best of everything discounted.

she says that you gotta get away from the heavy american populated areas and all the tourist attractions to experience this, as if your american or known to come from a wealthy country the prices change for you very quickly in these areas.

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63supro
"The good thing is in a club situation, most of the patrons are trashed and really can't tell the difference."

good response Nevin. You put it clearly and in a common sense way. No one wants to hear both sides though, controversy rules, and with that I'm jumping off of this thread. Almost forgot, I've talked with the president of Westheimer and he is one of the most gracious big executives I've ever spoken with, and, I'm certain he doesn't have anything to do with the controversy written about, I would ask to leave him out of this propaganda, but, like most common sense will go un-noticed.

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you can save the world with your guitar one love song at a time it's just better, more fun, easier with a fender solid body electric guitar or electric bass guitar.

just tax us real heavy when we go to buy imported good, it will make us not want to buy them, no demand=no supply

to simple?

it's a joke, don't hang me, had to put in my simplistic negative view.

she had a fishing boat captain take her out to a island to do some work.
it was about 45 minute ride. he dropped her off and went about a mile off shore.
he later returned with a fresh fish just caught and built a fire, cooked her lunch with all the extras. after she got finished working he took her on a sight seeing tour.
after it was all said and done she was out $20. she told me if you where american or came from a known wealthy country, it would have cost you several hundred, $400 or $500 maybe.
6hrs on the water, lunch cooked fresh, and sight seeing.
now for the local economy, that $20 is about the norm. maybe a slight bit more, say $5 or so. 1 trip a month or two by a "wealthy guy" and they are set rather nicely.
now me, $20 ? oh helz no. i might let you walk to the other side of my boat and look over the edge into 8 ft of water, damn sure not gonna hump azz like she said that guy does when she goes down there.
what we see as a pizz poor work enviroment and as slave labor, they might consider a solid work enviroment that helps them take very good care of their families.
the job they have might be considered a quality job and their earnings might be what their economy considers a nice wage.
im not saying that thats whats going on with cort ok, im just saying the media hardly ever reports the whole story as it really is. they are in business to get ratings and sell stories that we the public might want to see and hear.

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63supro
"The good thing is in a club situation, most of the patrons are trashed and really can't tell the difference."

What do you think increased import taxation will accomplish? Really, have a think about it?

Do you suppose it would discourage everyone to buy, therefore closing down the factory, eventually and ending the bad employee treatment?

That's very very naive.

For one thing should such a eventuality arise, all you've done is put the workers in a worse position than they were before. They've gone from being employed to unemployed. Do you want to try claiming welfare in Vietnam? Me neither.

However that is a very very unlikely outcome. Far more likely is that the business owner (who is most certainly a fellow countryman of yours or mine) will just lower the retail price to swallow up the tax increase. So the product sells for the same amount. Won't cut their profit margin, so where do they claw the money back? Easy they pay the workers even less.

It really is a abhorrent situation. I'm glad it's not rife in the guitar world. The clothing industry is particularly rife with it though. So how much of a tax increase will you stomach on your Nike's, Adidas or Levi's? 70-80% to make it worthwhile. You may as well just write to Nike's CEO and tell them that you want to pay more for your shoes on the proviso that overseas employees be treated better. Though if you believe that would ever happen in reality, you need to stop reading disney stories.

The only real option is to lobby goverment to pass law that domestic companies using overseas labour should be made to treat their overseas employees as domestic workers. Then watch prices soar.

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No no and no

the heavy tax's will discourage american companies from closing shop here and moving their factories overseas, maybe not all of them but they sure as hell will take a long hard look at it before they make the move.

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63supro
"The good thing is in a club situation, most of the patrons are trashed and really can't tell the difference."

Not at all.
Would you risk a 300% retail price increase to employ domestic workers? And suffer all the H&S, Union, tax issues of paying domestic workers. Never mind business rates and insurances. Or would you just pay TingTong and co' less and tell them to be thankfull for it.
Besides which you'll suffer the same on your export to other countries. So all you'll really acheive is further damage to your jobmarket whilst highstreet prices rise.

Sorry mate, it's a dreamworld idea.

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No no and no