It is currently Tue Mar 17, 2020 6:39 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
Post subject: Sustain?
Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:39 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:17 pm
Posts: 1292
Location: Halifax Canada
Reading the post about the number of turns of a string on the tuning peg affecting sustain, it got me wondering what is the biggest contributor to the sustain of a guitar.

Not being a physicist, if everyone want more sustain why are more people not playing a hollow/semi hollow?

_________________
CREDO ELVEM IPSUM ETAIM VIVERE


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: Sustain?
Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:59 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:57 am
Posts: 13164
Location: Peckham: where the snow leopards roam
Hi nicholsoni: sustain is a function of the mass and rigidity of the system (instrument) upon which the string is stretched. The more rigid the system the longer the sound energy of the strings' vibrations will be transmitted around and around it, giving a longer decay - more sustain.

In his guitar building book Martin Koch gives a useful analogy. If the guitar was made of solid rubber you'd have a very vibrant system - but one which absorbed and dissipated the vibration energy from the string very quickly, so almost zero sustain. On the other hand, if you had a guitar made from concrete it would be very rigid, vibration would decay slowly and you'd have a fantastically long sustain. But probably rather unattractive tonal qualities.

The construction of the various types of guitars falls somewhere on a spectrum between these two extremes.

Does that help any?

Cheers - C

PS: This subject usually degenerates into bolshy argument about different neck joint methods. Let's see how long that takes...

_________________
Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Sustain?
Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:09 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:47 am
Posts: 15336
Location: In a galaxy far far away
The notion of sustain being dependant on the number of turns around a tuner post is utterly silly. What on earth possible difference could it make? The string doesn't vibrate past the nut to any appreciable degree. Sounds like someone is getting confused and thinking scale/speak length and string length are the same thing. I read on that same thread a comment about locking tuners, hinting towards them reducing sustain because they don't use as many turns around the post. Well that is exactly the opposite of some other sales dogma/mythology that locking tuners promote sustain and reduce dead spots by adding mass.

Don't believe everything you read. You'll be clanging tiny cymbals and chanting mantra's with statues of multi armed blue elephants around you before you know it.

Image

Hollowbodies don't sustain anymore than solid bodies. String through makes no difference either. If it did the Telecaster (one of the few string through guitars) would own everything out there. LP's, SG's, Strats. Non of which use a string through body bridge. However the opposite is pretty much true.
Scale length (how floppy a string is at a certain pitch), solid construction, good signal path and setup. Thats about all that effects sustain.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Sustain?
Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:31 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:17 pm
Posts: 1292
Location: Halifax Canada
All good points, but it brings me back to one thing, is there one thing that affects sustain more than anything else...would it be wood?

But then wouldn't finish influence the absorbtion and resonance of the wood?

The neck joint is important as well because it transfers and resonates as well.

There are a million factors, but what is/are the biggest and which ones are really insignificantly small or myths(ie turns on a tuning peg).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAl3SahqGLU

_________________
CREDO ELVEM IPSUM ETAIM VIVERE


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Sustain?
Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:41 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:57 am
Posts: 13164
Location: Peckham: where the snow leopards roam
Ceri wrote:
PS: This subject usually degenerates into bolshy argument about different neck joint methods. Let's see how long that takes...

nicholsoni wrote:
The neck joint is important as well because it transfers and resonates as well.

Gosh, that didn't take long at all! :lol:

(Excluding the bolshy bit, of course. We're all friends here. :) )

Cheers - C

_________________
Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Sustain?
Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:44 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:51 pm
Posts: 25358
Location: Witness Protection Program
Quote:
the biggest contributor to the sustain of a guitar?


Carlos Santana.

Oh...wait...I thought you said 'who' and not 'what' :wink:

_________________
Being able to play and enjoy music is a gift that's often taken for granted.

Don't leave home without it!


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Sustain?
Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:23 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:52 am
Posts: 3840
Location: Colorado Springs
Yes, the more rigid results in the more sustain. So, stuff like block saddles instead of bent, and steel trem blocks are supposed to make improvements on this front. Also, do not forget that the pickups can make a huge difference, too. Because wood varies, one guitar might have amazing sustain while the exact same model guitar right next to it may be a dud.

_________________
Laughing out loud with fear and hope, I have a desperate plan ...


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Sustain?
Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:13 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:10 pm
Posts: 25
Many thing's factor in. IMHO the drier the wood is the better the sound will continue to be projected ! I know that for instance Gibson use's 100 year old wood ? on their custom shop reissue's. Todd Krause picked the wood for my masterbuilt and with the Abby handwound pickup's I get sustain for day's. Degaussing the magnet's on the PuP's a little also let's the string's continue to ring since the magnet isn't pulling as hard to try and stop the string.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Sustain?
Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:24 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:10 pm
Posts: 25
I can't quite remember but I believe it was on their custom shop web site. I wouldn't mention it here if I hadn't read it somewhere reputable. I don't like giving out bad info and would not do it intentionally. They use it supposedly only on their Historic reissue's.
They use regular mahogany for their other guitar's.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Sustain?
Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:46 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:10 pm
Posts: 25
Now you did it !! I'm going to be searching until the cow's come home :lol: to find out where I read that ! I let you know if or when I find it !!


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Sustain?
Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:55 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:17 pm
Posts: 1292
Location: Halifax Canada
Nevin1985 wrote:
txtwang wrote:
I know that for instance Gibson use's 100 year old wood on their custom shop reissue's.


And where did you hear that?


Something about that seems a little fishy. Where does one go to buy 100 year old wood? Did Gibson in 1910 find some "really good wood" and decide hmmm maybe I'll save this in case my great grand kids want to build a bunch of insanely expensive guitars.

Hmmmm.

_________________
CREDO ELVEM IPSUM ETAIM VIVERE


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Sustain?
Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:11 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:50 pm
Posts: 7998
Location: ʎɹʇunoɔ ǝsoɹ pןıʍ
Volume. Turn the amp up loud. You'll get more sustain.
Remember the old saying,`
If I`m playing too loud, you`re too old.

_________________
Image
Just think of how awesome a guitar player you could have been by now if you had only spent the last 10 years practicing instead of obsessing over pickups and roasted maple necks.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Sustain?
Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:18 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:17 pm
Posts: 1292
Location: Halifax Canada
I'm playing too loud when my wife says it's too loud. :oops:

_________________
CREDO ELVEM IPSUM ETAIM VIVERE


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Sustain?
Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:32 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:17 pm
Posts: 1292
Location: Halifax Canada
I took that to mean it had been drying for 100 years...maybe I was wrong?

_________________
CREDO ELVEM IPSUM ETAIM VIVERE


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Sustain?
Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:59 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:10 pm
Posts: 25
Not a slam fest !! Just a little discussion page. Most assuredly if they can date million year old dinosaur fossil's, 100 year old wood shouldn't be a problem . 'nuf said


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: