I've been trying to decide on a delay pedal for some time now. I use it like crazy with the alternative rock band I'm in now. The delay in my amp (Fender Deluxe VM) is sufficient for most of my delay needs (I mostly use it for some echos low in the mix, I don't need a whole lot of it). But I'm a huge fan of reverse delays and occasionally I'll use a slightly heavier delay sound in a song, or will want to switch delay types or times between songs.

A friend of mine has been letting me borrow his Boss DD-20 for a few months now and I like it well enough. I don't use nearly all of the features though, just some light smooth delay and reverse. I haven't delved into looping yet, but there are some songs I play live when I could see using it. Tap tempo is useless because I hardly ever use it high enough in the mix to matter, and because with our drummer, our tempo changes constantly within a song so it's impossible for me to use.

So I have a couple of opportunities to score a delay at a discounted price. An old Marshall Echohead is sitting around in the shop and no one has bought it yet. It's discontinued and it's been there for years so my boss will probably make me a deal if I buy it. I played it and I really love the sound, but there's no tap tempo unless you buy a switch for it. It's probably the cheapest I'm looking at, with the price around $100.

I also know someone who's selling a Pigtronix Echolution for $345. That's a little more than I wanted to spend. But I like the sound and I definitely prefer analog to digital, which is why I like it better than the Eventide Timefactor which is also in that price range. I hate to spend that much on a pedal, but on the other hand I've had a Jekyll and Hyde which seemed expensive at the time but I've used it constantly since I was 14 or 15.

Or I could always just wait for a DD-20 to come up somewhere. I really like the fact that I can switch from reverse to regular delay in a song without having to bend over and flip a switch. I'd never use reverse delay for an entire song, and it's much more easier to hit a footswitch to change a setting rather than doing it manually.

So in short does anyone have any experience with Marshall Echoheads, Pigtronix Echolutions or Boss DD-20s? And if not, what are your favorites and why?

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i have one of the echoheads , it does all that you are looking for and should last a lifetime they are great little units , hth
Alan

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I haven't tried any of the ones that you are asking about, but I was highly impressed with the Line 6 Echo Park - http://line6.com/tonecore/echoPark.html . It runs about $150 and can do almost all of the things you want. Be sure to get the power chord because it will eat batteries. Also, a 1Spot will not work with it. Anyway, I had one and sold it only because I got a Line 6 M9 which has all of the Echo Park effects in it.

BTW, the models are extremely realistic and you can switch between analog, digital, and tape delays.

Unless I need a really complex longwinded echo, set so the repeats match the beat of the song, I avoid digital delays at all costs. I much prefer the grain'ier quality of analogue pedals.
I currently use two. A Boss pitchshift/delay and a Tokai old thing that I found for £20. I much prefer the Tokai though it has nowhere near the range of a digital unit.
The one exception to the digital malaise I find is the delay on my VibrochampXD. That really is a nice sounding delay. I wish Fender would make those effects as a rack or floor unit, with more editing options. Really nice sounding. I even like the chorus on it! I just think it should have more options for adjustment, like any other dedicated effects unit.

Aside from that, I'm not a big fan of outboard reverb. It always sounds too much to my ear. I do find that I'll often subsitiute a low output set, very short delay instead of reverb. A bog standard analogue delay will do that far better than either digital or the old valve driven tape units.

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No no and no

Hi TGS: I haven't been back and checked but didn't you bring this up before - and didn't I suggest the DD-20 on that thread? Your remark about liking it "well enough" sounds a bit luke warm, so I guess it ain't turning out to be the holy delay grail, far as you're concerned.

And yet I'm not quite sure why. It does everything you are asking for in a user-friendly and reasonably affordable way... no? You can set up some presets, which covers your requirement to switch between sounds for different songs or within one number.

Also, it is rugged as heck, I happen to know. Just yesterday it sprang out of my hand as I was carrying it and bounced down a flight and a half of stairs as I watched helplessly. However: a couple of little paint chips but no other ill effects, it turns out. Phew!

If you've still got your hands on the one you've been borrowing may I suggest you experiment with the looping section? That might be one deciding factor in your case. It is basic by looper standards, but if it turns out to cover your needs then that is a good argument for staying with this pedal. If not, a different unit plus a separate looper might be your better option.

I can't comment on the other two boxes you mention, but one other suggestion. No reason to confine yourself to just one delay pedal. You could choose one of the small analog pedals to cover that part of your needs and then add one of the digital units, such as the Line 6 Echo Park that dvlsadvc8t mentioned, to supply your reverse and other requirements. Ping pong in stereo is embarrassingly fun, I often find! Different settings on the two units then cuts down on the amount of knob twiddling you need to do between songs.

Lastly, do I remember you considering the Eventide TimeFactor previously? Is that one off your list now?

BTW:

Yep, that's a well known problem for sure! Probably got a lot to do with why the horrible Lynn drum machine was first invented...

Good luck - C

I read in one of Joe Bonamassa articles that he has an army of boss DD-3 pedals from various years of manufacture and he claims that they all sound different. Maybe that is why TGS did not like that particular DD-20. It also suggests that a general gear setup might be in question.

TGS did you try to use that boss pedal in different place in your signal chain or in effects loop if you have one on your VM amp?

Did that make any difference?

I don't mean to sound like a stuck record but Electro Harmonix makes great delay pedals from the simplistic to the very advanced and all at much lower prices than most.I have used a rack mount Ibanez DM 1000 Digital Delay for about 25 years and they come up on e bay occasionally if you could latch on to one of these puppies you'd never want to look at another as they can do Delay,Tape echo,slapback,phasing ,flanging and chorus.I just put the delay on top of my amp and use it in last place in my signal chain.

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'65 Strat,65 Mustang,65 Jaguar,4 more Strats,3 vintage Vox guitars,5 Vox amps,'69 Bassman with a '68 2-15 Bassman cab,36 guitars total-15asst'd amps total,2 vintage '60s Hammond organs & a myriad of effects-with a few rare vintage ones.

I don't care for the pedals unless your amp has an effects loop. Delay should be behind your preamp and in front of the of the poweramp. The only effect to put after delay is reverb in your signal chain imho.

I think the less between the guitar and preamp section the better the tone.

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Guitars:
1. mid 70's Ventura MIJ Gibson l6-s clone (Pre-lawsuit) in Black with Rosewood FB and EMG 81 BR/ 85 Neck
2. ESP KH2 Neck Thru
3. 2008 Am Std Strat in 3 tone sunburst

Carbon Copy

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Current Gear: Ron Kirn Barnbuster Tele,
Marshall: 1971 SuperLead 100>1997 1960-TV, bunch of pedals
and a 1987 Porsche 911 Carrera coupe named Veronica

ok im lost.
you said tap tempo was useless in one sentence,then you were talking about the marshall and said "I played it and I really love the sound, but there's no tap tempo unless you buy a switch for it".
is that a down side to the marshall since you dont like tap tempo anyways?
use different pedals if you have to.

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63supro
"The good thing is in a club situation, most of the patrons are trashed and really can't tell the difference."

Hi Firststrat,I Started a thread a couple of weeks ago about how I didn't like or use effects loops and a rather large number of people wrote in to say the same.The effects loop robs some of your tone and you get a much better tone if you plug your effects chain into the guitar input and bypass the effects loop entirely.I have experimented with and without effects loops and have found that they really affect the tone negatively. I use the delay at the end of my chain and use the amps reverb or I'll slave out my signal into the delay from the main amp and send the dry and effects signals to 2 different amps giving me a synthesized 3 channel sound.

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'65 Strat,65 Mustang,65 Jaguar,4 more Strats,3 vintage Vox guitars,5 Vox amps,'69 Bassman with a '68 2-15 Bassman cab,36 guitars total-15asst'd amps total,2 vintage '60s Hammond organs & a myriad of effects-with a few rare vintage ones.

Wow, thanks everyone! You've really got me thinking, which is exactly what I needed. This is probably going to be a fairly long post.



I wonder if that's the same or similar to what I have in my Deluxe VM? I really like it's tone, it's what I used on the Sugarhill sessions. I just wish it was in stompbox form so I could tweak it without having to turn around and bend down in the dark trying to find the right controls when I'm playing live.



It's very possible I could have brought this subject up within the last six months or so. But I was mainly looking at lower end pedals then and didn't even consider anything over $200. Now that I have two with cost over $300 in the running, I thought it might be a good idea to get some more feedback before diving in that deep.

As far as the DD-20 goes there are pros and cons. It has tons of controls and settings, which I like. There may be some things I don't use, but I like everything being there just the same. And I really like the fact I can switch delay types during a song with my foot. That's a huge bonus. And it's a Boss pedal, it'll last longer than me.

But the only thing I don't like as much is that all the digital delays sound very similar to me. I'm just a bigger fan of analog, and the analog setting on the DD-20 isn't my favorite. I like the smooth delay setting best. I like all the control you can have with digital delay, but the tone of analog.

Also, with the gain up (I have a couple of overdrive pedals earlier in the chain) even with the delay off I can still hear it thumping. Is that the reason why people but delay in their effects loops? I've never really messed with effects loops. It's embarrassingly the one thing on an amp I still haven't figured out.



I definitely need to play with that feature. I can immediately think of uses for looping with the band I'm in. And it would be nice not to have to buy a separate looper pedal.


I love that idea. It never occurred to me. Instead of getting the perfect pedal that does everything get the best of both worlds with two different pedals. And I wouldn't even have to buy both at once either, which would be easier for me to do.


Is was briefly on my list. The other guitarist the singer in my band used to play with had one on his board. I hadn't seen one before and I knew it was on the expensive side so I was intrigued. I watched some youtube videos on it and read some reviews, but it's just not the right thing for me. I'd never use half of it's capabilities and I'm not looking to be the Edge or anything.



I might as well ask the newbish question I was going to ask now...

What is the advantage of using an effects loop and how does it work?



I've always liked EH and I've heard good things about their delays. That's another one I have to check out.

While I'm sure a rack mount system like that would sound nice, I don't really want the extra thing to lug around. As it is I can just barely carry my pedal board or lift my amp, which means I have to usually rely on other people. No Super Reverbs or anything for me right now.



Sorry, I should have explained myself better.
I just can't ever use tap tempo live. I'm trying to patch together something for record with at home. In that situation I will likely be using drum loops and tap tempo would be an option. Plus I like things overkill. Even if I'd only rarely use it I'd rather have it than not. But in general I guess I could get by without it.

Well in short I really like Ceri's idea of using an analog delay and a digital delay. I think that with that setup I could get everything I'm after and then some.

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Echoplex, is the only delay effect I've ever used, a small adjustable tape delay effect, in 66 and 67, it sounded and worked great, there might still be some in use, don't know how easy to find.

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you can save the world with your guitar one love song at a time it's just better, more fun, easier with a fender solid body electric guitar or electric bass guitar.

Gosh, thank you! I'm delighted if any of that helps.

And most important of all, I really like the way your mind works on this stuff. You think it through clearly and sensibly - I have complete faith that you will find the ideal solution for your needs.

BTW, TGS: I was showing my wife some of the vids of your playing that have been posted on this Forum. She has become an instant fan, so keep sharing your stuff with us please! Mrs C sends her regards.

Best of luck - C

That is exactly my problem with it. Why I have a VM as a house amp and a 3ft wide pedalboard and bigger amp to gig. Though I do use my Vibrochamp with the ska band I play in, primarily because of the excellent reverb and delay sound. I just out it to the PA, the sound doesn't change from one song to the next.
I see no reason why Fender couldn't offer the same product in a rack or floor unit. The effects layout is very similar to the Gdec, I'll bet it's little more than the same tech, but updated. They have always been notoriously absent from the pedal market. Look at the likes of Marshall by comparison. The other massive amp company, but has a whole range of boxes and rack gear in their past catalogue.
Why not make a VM amp with a dedicated floor controler and memory banks, like the cyber series? I think the whole series is needlessly maligned, very very good amps, certainly a lot better than some of the other amps fender have released in the last 20 years. Probably the first amp to offer the best of both worlds effectively. Valve purists will no doubt disagree but the worlds gonna change one day.

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No no and no