The only way you can confirm any of that Cedar' is by putting both trems on one guitar and setting the guitar up to exactly the same measurements for each trem.

I wouldn't trust anything Calaham have to say. They proved themselves liars when they claimed Fender don't use 1018CRS for the trem blocks. Mike Eldred stated the exact opposite of their claims. Even showed pictures of the original 1950's machinery that makes the blocks.

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No no and no

I'm glad I'm not the only one who doesn't buy into Callaham's tales.

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You dig?

Martian I tried their block, my overall opinion of it (in a MIM) is that it did improve the presence of the guitar. It sounded very strident and strong particularly in the upper mids. The sustain claims are a sham. The trem arm fitting is superb, a real improvment on all but the Deluxe trem's arm fitting.

All in all not worth £50 for a block when you can buy a complete trem system that has real design improvments for half that price. Or a complete Deluxe trem system for £75. If they didn't base their sales on myths, let the thing stand or fall on it's own merit's and priced themselves properly. I'd be a little more accepting of their parts. I think the difference in tone was entirely down to the flat machining of the top of the block. I'm absolutely convinced it isn't down to the 3 or 4 cubic CM size difference between that old MIM block and a vintage sized block. Infact because of it, I whetstoned 2 of my tremblocks and the underside of their tremplates perfectly flat. Now that old MIM has the American Standard trem I bought from Allthumbs a couple of years ago. I don't miss either the original, or the callaham blocked version. I do miss the staggered string insert/exit of the wilkinson. But that's about it. I'm nearly tempted to shell out for a Gotoh/Wilkinson unit, but just don't see the need.

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No no and no

I'm not saying Callaham is right or wrong and I'm not saying his products are the best out there, I was simply saying that what he explains on that page is what I noticed when comparing the two different saddles.

Take a look at these pics I just took...

Modern saddles





Vintage saddles





Notice how the string touches the saddle before it gets to the top, this deadens the sound IMO, at least that's what I'm experiencing... I would've never noticed that had I not bought a Dlx Strat recently, all my Strats in the past have had vintage saddles.

As I mentioned I have tested this. I took one of the modern block saddles and installed it on the vintage 6-point and immediately noticed the difference in tone on the low E string, even with the guitar unplugged. I can't swap complete bridges since one is a 2-point and the other 6-point.

"Allthumbs": LMAO!

I'm in complete agreement. As you've stated, he has made a few minor improvements and his prices are indeed astronomical!

I had a boss years ago who always used to say, "People love to be ripped off!" In part, what he meant was, if you charge an exorbitant price for something, people will automatically believe it to be vastly superior and cheerfully pay the price. He went on to say that if you charged a competitive price, people will automatically be suspicious of the item and try to haggle the price down. Further, when this expensive piece turns out to be a rip-off, the owners will vehemently try convincing themselves and others that it is worth it because if for nothing else, they must save face and "misery loves company".

As to the Gotoh/Wilkinson unit, there's infinitely more valuable 'toys' out there than it.

My disclaimer: All the above is merely IMO where YMMV.

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You dig?

Like I said, he has made some minor improvements and you surely have proven your point. I maintain though that the price he charges for his stuff is really out of line.

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You dig?

I don't own any Callaham products, but if I want to have vintage saddles and not deal with the issue I'm dealing with what would you recommend?

I might end up ordering a set of his vintage saddles, they're only $37, Fender vintage saddles cost $27 on ebay, in my case $10 are worth it if it fixes the problem only problem is, he doesn't have any in gold...

your Boss must have been an amazing person to talk with.
hes exactly right in his claims.

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63supro
"The good thing is in a club situation, most of the patrons are trashed and really can't tell the difference."

Martian

I think your boss was bang on the money. Perhaps I ought to start charging the astronomical amounts that the likes of Dunlop charge for pedals. Mine certainly sound better. Who knows a week or two at their prices, I could buy myself a factory to build em in and let the missus have the kitchen back.


Cedar, I'm not saying you're right or wrong about the saddles. Just that the only way to accurately check that is by keeping all other factors the same.

How can more contact deaden sound though, that's what I'd ask myself. The thinking behind it goes completely against the grain of the rest of trem mythology which is based falsely on 'more contact the better'. It's not even on the talk length of the string, which is about the only thing in my experience that does affect the sustain of a guitar. Less talk length, lower tension to concert pitch, more oscillating (side to side/circular) string movement when a note is struck.

I'd agree that elongated slots and no unnecessary contact is better for preventing string breakage.

Real trem designers have been telling us these things since the 80's. Wilkinson address that by not only elongating the slots, but staggering the string exit points on the block to roughly the area to allow the best angle for unimpaired string travel.
If for instance your trem was suffering the malaise of my Deluxe, where you had to wind the saddle back to it's fullest to get the thing to intonate. You'd be close to touching, if not touching that bit of the saddle you dont want to hit. Move the strings exit point to suit average intonation and you never will touch the saddle except at the break point.

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No no and no

ok im leaning towards cedars views on tremolos.
i would think the less contact a string has with anything
the longer it would vibrate/sustain.
now a string has many contacts as it is.
in some cases, twice with the saddle, once through the nut, and then
the machine head. now add a finger to the mix and thats yet another contact, but takes away any contacts after the finger towards the nut.
now, theres more. the staddles are connected to the trem, which is
either making contact 2 or 6 times to the body and then theres the spring count. lots of contacting to kill the sustain going on here.
im not sure one more contact or one less in the saddle area would make that much difference honestly, but i see cedars point here on this.
all that said w/o any real education or research on the matter guys.

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63supro
"The good thing is in a club situation, most of the patrons are trashed and really can't tell the difference."

You could do one of two things: Expand the string holes in your existing saddles by drill bit. Meaning, secure each saddle and drill the same width hole in front of the existing one to where it meets and removes the forward wall of the existing string hole, thereby allowing the strings to clear the now expanded forward hole and only touch the top of the saddle. Of course, you'll have to feather and merge the walls of the new holes by final filing with the existing ones. Or, get the Callaham set and have them plated (which will probably expensive).

Caveat: Of course, you'll get better sustain due to increased pressure with the modified saddles but there will be also be increased wear and tear from the strings. See, OEM, the strings currently lean on the forward edge of the hole of their respective saddles. This absorbs some of the cutting wear and tear from the strings on the saddle top, the bridge plate and ultimately the block. Consider that after the modification, the angle of the downward pull on the string will be more pronounced and "zeroed-in" on than OEM which down the road, may cause increased breakage of strings and metal fatigue of the saddle top.

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You dig?

I agree all factors must remain the same. But what I did is that I took what I felt was giving me that tone and moved it to the other guitar and the results were positive. I wish I had other saddles to try so I can confirm this, the saddles on the Dlx are offset so I can't replace all 6... I do have some on the way though and will probably end up ordering the Callaham just so I can feel better about knowing what works and what doesn't.

I can't answer whether the additional contact at the saddle is to blame or just the different designs of the saddles, I'm just happy that I've narrowed it down to the saddles. Material, mass, contact points are all variables here... I think the Callaham saddles will eliminate 2 of the 3 variables and then I can have my answer.

Thank Martian! I'll start with the Callaham saddles first and see how it goes... my drilling skills aint all that worst case I can replace the gold vintage saddles with some modern gold ones that fit if I really want to do this, or just leave this Strat alone...

Sounds like a plan, good luck!

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You dig?

Where do you get that info? Fender doesn't use "CRS" blocks, even in the high end Strats. Their reason, softer steel = easier to machine. Look at all of the cast blocks that Fender uses (ie Am Std "Copper infused" cast block...WTF?). I have asked for proof of the use of CRS for Fender blocks before.....still waiting. I believe that Leo was even quoted as saying that "it doesn't matter about the steel in the block, no difference in sound" (paraphrased). Of course it does make a big difference.

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---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.