wha are the pro/cons over a 2 point and a 6 screw tremolo?

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63supro
"The good thing is in a club situation, most of the patrons are trashed and really can't tell the difference."

More trem travel, thats about the only one I found.

There are a lot of negative aspects on the two point. Their a lot less durable for one.

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No no and no

well please niki tell me what you know. i almost expect you'll pop in on questions like this. dude ive learned so much from you its crazy.
i at least always get a great starting point for my own research ya know?
i always double check my info i get from anybody.
this way we can find out whats fact and whats opinion.
believe it or not sometimes opinion out weighs facts. well in my book any ways.

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63supro
"The good thing is in a club situation, most of the patrons are trashed and really can't tell the difference."

The easier action of the 2 point trem is mainly due to it's lower tension (black) springs. If you put those springs onto a synchronized trem, you get a similar feeling trem action. I.e easy to operate.

The 2 point does have more scope for accurate return to pitch (zero point). However that is based solely on the condition of the tremplates knife edge and groove in the pivot post. The minute either starts to wear, the trem's stability is compromised. Exactly the same way a floyd rose system suffers when it's worn. The floyd and the 2 point are very very similar systems. EVH reckons he could wear a floyd out in 2 weeks. The same principles are in play with the 2 point trem, all that string pressure is focused onto the trem posts. 2 very thin points of the trem plate constantly under pressure, rubbing against those 2 posts.
The synchronized trem has a far stronger point of contact, less prone to wear. Though admittedly it doesn't have the same scope for accurate return to pitch as the 2 point, initially. It will however when set properly, consistently return to it's zero point for a lot longer than a 2 point trem and require a lot less maintainance.

Also another suspected malaise of the 2 point trem.
Ever notice that there are nowhere near the same number of synchronized trems that suffer the low E saddle bottoming out on the intonation adjustment. It seems to be a problem that occurrs on lots of Standards and Deluxes, but hardly seen on VRI's.

If you look at this terrible Iphone picture of my Anni Deluxe, you can see that the greater tension of the bass strings has caused more wear on the bass side knife edge. Causing that side of the trem plate to move towards the nut. (See it's not parallel to the scratchplate)



You never see that happen on sychronized trem guitars. Because the pressure is distributed better across six screws that aren't really acting as pivot posts (the fulcrum of that trem is on the base of the tremplate). As much as they are acting as anchors to keep the thing in place.

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No no and no

I have 2 and 6 point vibratos on my Strats and even though the 2 point seems easier to dive etc. I find that the 6 point just feels better and more substancial plus it's easier to keep in tune after doing excessive whammy use and easier to balance and set up although I have all of mine decked or flush to the body.So the 6 point is by far my favourite.

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'65 Strat,65 Mustang,65 Jaguar,4 more Strats,3 vintage Vox guitars,5 Vox amps,'69 Bassman with a '68 2-15 Bassman cab,36 guitars total-15asst'd amps total,2 vintage '60s Hammond organs & a myriad of effects-with a few rare vintage ones.

so niki
f you were going to buil a parts guitar, and it was going to be the cats azz as far as parts and playability (in your opinion anyways) wat would you use?
a 2 point or a 6 screw trem? not a lot of dive bombs will be done but mainly a blues/country style tremolo useage.

good info slinger.

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63supro
"The good thing is in a club situation, most of the patrons are trashed and really can't tell the difference."

Well now you are asking a real question.

On the sound of the thing, if I were building a country guitar I'd opt for a 2 point trem. I find the sound of that trem has a smoother attack. Particularly the highly polished saddles of the deluxe. When I first played my Custom Classic I could never get that country idea out of my head. Despite the s1 switching. In the end I swapped the pickups and wiring to suit it.

If I were building a all round guitar I'd opt for a 6 point. Theres a reason that all the players who can have whatever they want on their guitar choose that trem. It sounds far better in most applications.

If money was no object and I could source any parts I wanted. I'd choose a 6 point design with the polished block saddles of the 2 point trem. A push in bar of the deluxe design and the lower tension springs of that trem too. I reckon that would suit a country style really well and suffer non of the 'bass side slide' that some 2 point trems suffer.

I honestly wouldn't let it worry me. Both are good designs Most users don't even notice the flaws of the 2 point trem. Everybody seems to notice the flaws of the synchronized trem. But as we've previously discussed they can be overcome with a good setup.

You'll get more travel out of the 2 point trem because of its block shape. I'd probably opt for that too. Callahams claim that it isnt 1018CRS is a lie.

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No no and no

It would be cool if they made one that pivoted on a bearings system. That seems like it wound wear well and return to zero well. Kind of like a roller nut works.

matt

khaler did that way back in the 80s. it was pretty ugly and a weird fit
but it worked.

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63supro
"The good thing is in a club situation, most of the patrons are trashed and really can't tell the difference."

Granted, they set up a bit differently but in the final analysis, frankly, I find either just as reliable. If given a choice though, I'd lean towards the two point as it has less mating contact areas which means less resistance and much fewer (re)settling possibilities. YMMV.

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You dig?

but at a great loss to sustain right?

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63supro
"The good thing is in a club situation, most of the patrons are trashed and really can't tell the difference."

This is partially true which brings forth an old, on-going argument:

Consider the bottom line here, it is a solid body, electric guitar.

A "run of the mill" Strat has a solid body with a non-laminated top and a bolt-on neck. Add the usual hardware and finish (and/or variations) into the mix and how monumental can such a loss be? A reference point would be the difference between say, a hard tail vs. a tremolo equipped body. Sure, the difference is there but it can be easily compensated for by either a tweak of the amp or a slightly more aggressive pickup or pickup set. I liken this to the perpetual maple vs. rosewood board debate. The same compensations will easily yield either's variations.

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You dig?

hum..... it is something to thin about.
im about to buy a lot of bodies. two stacks, one set of 4 has 2 point, the other set of 4 has 6 screw. seller wont let me mix/match.
i can only shell out for one or the other.

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63supro
"The good thing is in a club situation, most of the patrons are trashed and really can't tell the difference."

Then unless it's a stupidly good deal, like $50 for 4 bodies, walk away.

Ain't your fault he's lumbered with a load of bodies he can't or won't put necks and pickups on.

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No no and no

I'm kinda new to Tremolos, always played hardtails....

I started with a Am. Dlx, recently added MIM Classic 60s. Replaced bridge with 62 RI for a steel block and cause I wanted gold hardware on the Classic 60s. So I have both, and 5 springs on both. I'm not a heavy trem user at all. Here's what I noticed:

First I thought the vintage 6-point bridge was smoother, easier to operate. I had replaced the springs on the Dlx with 5 shorter/stronger springs. So while testing something else I decided to swap springs between the two and now the Dlx with 2-point feels smoother than the 6-point. Like I said, I'm not a heavy trem user, so my experience might not be helpful here, but I think you can get a good balance for both from a proper setup and different springs.

As far as staying in tune, my Dlx seems to do a great job, and I don't have the locking tuners.

Now, how does each affect tone? Well, I've been messing with this for the last few days and I've come to the conclusion that the saddles are more important than everything else in the mix. More than the block, 2-point vs 6-point, nut material, etc... I've always liked how the strings just ring crisp clear on the Dlx. The block saddles are the reason behind this. Rigth now I'm not 100% sure why, material, mass or how the string contacts the saddle. I'm sure the experts here can explain it better.

Callaham has an explanation that might confirm what I've noticed so far, but I don't have any of his saddles to test this on the same guitar.

http://www.callahamguitars.com/bridges.htm



Looking at both Strats, I see that on the Dlx the string does not touch the saddle anywhere except over the top while on the vintage bent saddles it touches the slot before it gets to the top. I noticed the same thing on my 79 hardtail, which also experiences the same issue and doesn't have that ring the Dlx offers.

On the 6-point bridge with the vintage saddles the wound strings sound too soft in my opinion and don't have the volume or sustain that my 2-point offers, this is with both guitars unplugged. I confirmed that it is the saddles by removing one of the block saddles and installing it on the 6-point trem, and right away the E string woke up!

Perhaps these block saddles are an improvement, I know many prefer the vintage look, and so do I, but if I want a bright, clear tone with plenty of sustain I will choose the block saddles o maybe the Callaham saddles. 2-point vs 6-point, it doesn't really matter to me, when setup properly both feel good, but I do prefer the vintage looks of the 6-point.