Hey guys, so here's the deal, I've always played through solid-state amps for the sheer fact that I didn't know anything about tube amps and they were a bit pricey. Well I've noticed that there are a few very nice amps out there for a relatively low price; i.e Jet City Amps, Crate's V series amps. My question to you guys is what kind of watts does a tube amp need to be play with a band in small club situations? I know 50 watts would be good, but a lot of the amps in my price range seem to be at about the 20 - 30 watt mark. I think if thirty watts is sufficent to keep up with drums and a bass I'll have a new tube amp to play with very soon.
I play mostly blues and do want an amp with enough headroom to really rip, but mostly what I play is at lower gain levels.

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I use a 18 watt amp, goes up to 6 on outdoor gigs.

Wattage isn't any different for valve or solid state amps. 1 watt is 1 watt whatever it comes from.

This explains a lot

http://www.award-session.com/pdfs/Speaker_Upgrade.pdf

and

http://www.award-session.com/pdfs/GEAR_TALK_1.pdf

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No no and no

I can easily keep up with a very aggressive drummer with an Egnater Rebel 20. Twenty tube watts is amazingly loud. The Rebel 20 runs both EL84 and 6V6 power tubes that use can blend to ant degree, but, when you put the tube mix dial at 12:00, you get a pretty decent volume bump that puts it near the 30 watt mark. I've kept up with 50 watt amps with this amp using two 1x12 cabs and can completely blitzkrieg a 75-100 watt solid state amp with it. So yes, anything in the 20-30 watt range should be fine. After playing Fender amps fro over 40 years I just wanted something different and versatile and the Egnater satisfies it for me and gives me the tones I have in my head. I still love older Fender designs but their new stuff leaves me cold.

I tried the Jet City twenty watter and was seriously impressed. I always liked Soldano designed amps and I know Mike Soldano wouldn't lend his credibility and designs to a garbage company. I'm no gear snob and use what works for me. I no longer own any real expensive guitars or amps. I sold them off a long time ago when I found I sound like me regardless of what I play. As long as my gear is reliable and stays in tune it's all good. I found a real expensive guitar doesn't always make you play or sound better. They may be easier to play, but won't make you sound better.
My revelation was when I repaired a friends Tiesco Del Rey and I still sounded like me when I played it. My guitars are pretty old. My Strats a 72, my Supro is a 62, My Dano U1 is a 57 and was found in the trash and still works just fine. It has lots of Mojo. One of my goto guitars is an Ibanez AS73 modded with Seymour Duncan Phat Cat P90's my acoustics are all old low end guitars, a Gibson LGO, Ibanez, Yamaha etc all from the 70's. I have a cheap Morell resonator too as well as a few other odd balls.

My point is play what you like as long as it's reliable. A buddy of mine has a Marshall hand wired 18 watt combo that blows power and output trannies on a regular basis and Marshall just keeps fixing it. Sounds great when it works but his Bassman reissue is a lot more reliable and also sounds great. The Marshall cost him a fortune when he bought it and is plenty loud with a 1x12 extension cab.

50 watts is way too loud for small club situations so why carry all the extra weight and get told to turn it down all the time?

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15 watts may be a little on the short side unless you can push a little more air or mic it. For me, 15 watts is usually almost there but not quite unless you're pushing something like a 4x10 or 2x12 or maybe a 1x15. Unless you have a really efficient speaker and even then it's a crap shoot. I still recommend 20-30 just so your not always pushing the amp real hard on a constant basis.

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A Deluxe Reverb 22watts with 1x12 is enough for me although I have a couple of tube amps rated higher than that.
I've always been one guitarist who thinks that if a drummer plays too loud and drowns everyone one out,tell him to hold it down or get rid of him.
That's the problem with drummers who have more strength than talent,a good drummer can help you,a bad one only makes things worse.

A lot of factors to consider, the venue, the acoustics, if on stage or floor, etc...

Depending on those factors, I'll use a 15 watt Pro Jr in most small club situations. The only mod is a Ragin Cajun speaker and I sit it on top of a
18" tall stand.

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Choosing the wattage of an amp depends more on the clean headroom you desire rather than volume. A 100 watt tube amp is not twice as loud as a 50, it's only 3db louder, http://www.300guitars.com/articles/ampl ... -decibels/
But the 100 watt amp will have more clean headroom than the 50 watt.

If you want to play clean and get all of your dirt from pedals, then get I'd say go with 40 watts or more. If you don't mind a little dirt all the time then go with a lesser wattage amp. Mind you this is all based on playing in a band situation. Even a cranked 5 watt tube amp into natural distortion in the living room is going to be too loud for others in the house or even neighbors depending where you live.

One piece of advice I wish I got when getting my first tube amp after years of only solid state is to turn the amp up! when demo'ing it at the shop. Unlike most solid state amps, tube amps take on different characteristics as the volume is increased. It was only after cranking the amp for the first time in band practice that I realized picked the wrong amp since it sounded different than the lower levels I had it at while plunking around with it in the store.

"I play mostly blues and do want an amp with enough headroom to really rip, but mostly what I play is at lower gain levels."

Try the Bassman or Super Reverb reissues.

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Obligatory gear list: Fender, Rickenbacker, Gibson, Gretsch, Vox, Martin, and more Fender.

My DRRI (with a few mods) has never failed to deliver.

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY

what metropolis74 said!

Go with 40 watts minimum. If you play any clean rhythm, you may not have the headroom to get a the clean sound at volume if you go with too little power. I remember having to play outside with my 1966 Blackface Deluxe. The clean sound was great at practice, but when I needed to turn up, my rhythm was way too dirty for the songs.

About being asked to turn down: It's easy to do. Try turning up if you are already on "10" (that's harder).

Also, you may experience many (most) playing situations where nobody gets miked thru the PA system. Don't count on having a sound tech, let alone a GOOD sound tech.

If you have enough amp, you won't be sorry. 100 watt (or 85 watt) Twin Reverbs are club standards for a reason. You are pretty much covered no matter what.

For my 2c worth: Sometimes 15 tube watts works, sometimes it falls a little short. I'm convinced that 20-30 tube watts is ideal. I like it when "stage volumes" and band members play at volumes that allow one to use a 15 watt tube amp, but it doesn't always happen, especially with strangers and/or egotists at jams, etc.

As for a watt being a watt, of course at face value that's correct, but I'm positive that there is a major difference in the perceived volume. If you don't think so, try playing with a group using a 25 watt Fender Frontman, then try a 20-30 watt tube amp, and decide for yourself.

Personally, I feel a 65 to 75 watt solid state is necessary to equal 20-30 tube watts. YOMV!

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The quintessential sound of 60/70's R&R:
Fender Tube Amps
Gibson Guitars

That's because transistorized amps are rated in Behringer watts.



Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY

RVM

If you read the 2nd link I posted the difference is explained perfectly in there.

Behringer rate everything at peak, not root mean square.

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No no and no

nikininja Posted: Wed 24 Nov 2010 13:46 Post subject:

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"RVM

If you read the 2nd link I posted the difference is explained perfectly in there.

Behringer rate everything at peak, not root mean square."

For whatever the true reason(s), it's good for a person who has not played a large variety of amps and asks about what he/she needs to know there is a significant difference.

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The quintessential sound of 60/70's R&R:
Fender Tube Amps
Gibson Guitars

Yeah but the difference isnt constant. It doesn't occur in all transistor amps. Get a well matched speaker to the tran amp and it will sound just as loud as a valve amp of the same rating.

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No no and no

Sorry, but I'll remain a skeptic on that. Thanks for your viewpoint, however.

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The quintessential sound of 60/70's R&R:
Fender Tube Amps
Gibson Guitars