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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:47 pm
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As Rev. Blues mentioned his voice is well suited to his music and his style.


As far as Maruuk's take that he should get someone with a better voice to sing the songs and concentrate on playing the guitar I have to disagree. I've never found that a great voice is a pre-req. for playing good blues based music.

Quite the opposite in fact, I usually find that my favorite blues works are where the guitarist is also the singer, regardless of the quality of their voice. I think it helps keep the call and response more true and honest if the guy writing the lyrics and playing the guitar is also the one singing it. Someone else will sing the same words in a different way and with a different vibe, which can conflict with what the guitarist intended the axe's answer to be. Blues should be a very personal and intimate form of expression in my opinion, the addition of a singer who isn't the songwriter can only hurt things.


That's just my opinion. I think JM does a good job and he's bringing blues based music back into popular culture, which is long overdue in my opinion.




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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:48 pm
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Was it the mimicking or the critics which offended you? Some performers make it work, others not. Joss Stone, to be accurate, is actually trying to channel Janis, not a Black artist. Elvis was always criticized for "aping", but he doesn't sound Black at all!

Can we agree that Mayer is a better guitar player than singer? :D


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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:50 pm
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As a general rule we're not too keen on editing posts nor making post bodies (or forum members, for that matter) magically disappear -- with obvious exceptions for blatant, flagrant disregard of the forums' Code of Conduct. For example, if someone posts the latest hot centerfold here it and the individual who posted it will be gone with no questions asked. :D

That said, I'd challenge you guys to get this discussion back on track before someone says something that is in blatant, flagrant disregard of the forums' Code of Conduct. We're definitely borderlining on that sort of thing and my inbox is lighting up with folks complaining about this thread so that tells you that somethin' here just ain't right.

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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:51 pm
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Maruuk wrote:
Were you troubled when Mick Jagger was roundly criticized by many US music critics for "aping" a "Black sound" and prancing around like a "monkey" on stage, which was a veiled allusion to mimicking Black musical artists? Read the articles, hundreds of em. In the entire history of rock n' roll from Elvis to Pat Boone to John Mayer, the issue of Whites awkwardly trying to emulate a "Black" sound has been one of the key controversies in rock music. All at a time when Black artists themselves were starving from being cut out of their royalties by White record owners.

Some critics called the Whites' performances themselves racism. Others said it was more of a tribute. Heck, the debate continues today with Joss Stone and many other White performers trying to sound like something they're not. You can like that or not. But it is and has been a seminal issue in popular music since the beginning. Is it racist to refer to 50 years of controversy? Please. Let's grow up here.

I hear Mayer desperately trying to sing like something he's not, and it's excruciating. If you guys like that, more power to you. We disagree. End of story.


PS Justifying your claimed non-racist comments by quoting other clearly racist comments (from elsewhere) is not very good for your cause now, is it? It's like saying perceived anti-semitic comments are okay because they've been happening for centuries.

As for your claim to be referring to 50 years of controversy, I think you should learn to put your message across much better - particularly on such a sensitive subject as this!! The way you worded your statement was crude and sounded like opinion and not an analysis of the history of black and/or white music.

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Last edited by Revolution Blues on Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:54 pm
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Back on topic, the first time I ever saw/heard Mayer was on the Crossroads DVD. That was a great performance and it was from there I found his recorded music. Perhaps that is why I was a little disppointed at the lack of guitar hero stuff, so maybe I am being a little unfair to the guy.

But I'd still like to hear him let rip on the next studio record.....

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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:00 pm
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Maruuk wrote:
Was it the mimicking or the critics which offended you? Some performers make it work, others not. Joss Stone, to be accurate, is actually trying to channel Janis, not a Black artist. Elvis was always criticized for "aping", but he doesn't sound Black at all!

Can we agree that Mayer is a better guitar player than singer? :D


The critics. I don't care who "mimics" who or what, I just like or dislike the music.

Yes, Mayer certainly is a better guitarist than vocalist, but I return to my earlier point that his voice is in fact well suited to his music and lyrics. A stronger, harder voice would overpower that gentle Strat tone.

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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:01 pm
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I couldn't disagree more. This is a legitimate and long-running controversy in music which is highly relevant to Mayer's vocal stangulations. He has a perfectly nice and normal speaking voice. But the moment he opens his mouth to sing, he adopts a completely forced and stylized persona trying to be someone he's not--you can barely make out any words. Now you guys like that. Be my guest. But let others have their opinions, and agree to disagree.

In the future, perhaps we should pose questions like: What do you guys think of Steve Cropper (nice things only!)? Then I would gladly respond in kind, or not at all however the cae may be.

But don't go telling folks how they can express themselves as long as they are articulate and use no bad language or attack any other forum member and do not violate an forum standards. That is personal, and it's not allowed. Discuss issues, not posters. Thank you.


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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:03 pm
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I think it may have something to do with what he's trying to achieve. As it was mentioned, blending the blues in with other styles of music to get it back into the mainstream of our cultural conciousness. The reality is, not everyone wants to hear a really long blues solo...fact. As a Bass player I can attest to this, there are times when it's called for and the guitarist really has something he NEEDS to get out. Those are the magic times. However, it's not always there, and it's not always appropriate. Something many axemen take years to learn. JM is putting music out there that has definite ties to the past, but is not only palpable, but obviously appealling to a major demographic that may have never sat down and really delved into the older blues works or even deeper into the genre at all. If he turns some people who never would have listened to the blues onto it, then he's doing a great thing. I hope he keeps it up. I'm sure sooner or later he'll take a run at some really deep blues, give him time. It'll happen when it needs to.


D

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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:08 pm
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Maruuk, do please understand that I - and I believe others here - have/had no problem with negative opinions about anyone. All I can do is ask you to re-read this entire thread to understand what the sole issue was about your comments - until then there is no point in continuing this part of the discussion. Indeed, our argument is supported by the fact we only questioned part of your lengthy negative comments about Mayer. QED!

As for your wider point, I believe you are completely wrong for this reason. Many musicians act in a seemingly strange physical way when they perform. I bring your attention to the many pianists and violinists (amongst other classicial musicians) who take on a completely different persona when they play. Many offer the strangest of facial expressions and physical contortions as they sink deep into their music, forgetting about the crowds who are watching.

And anyway, Mayer's voice sounds like nothing I have heard before. If he is mimicking other people, how do you know that what they do is also natural and original? And there's the rub. End of story.

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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:17 pm
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Yet that's my honest opinion. Sorry you can't handle it, not my problem. Don't worry, Mayer can take it, he's got 100 million bucks to salve his hurt feelings.

Attack the message if you will, not the messenger. Tell me why Mayer is better than Kevin Eubanks or Danny Gatton, whatever, but I didn't use any bad language, I didn't tell any of you to change how you expressed yourself, and I didn't attack anybody here. You need to review the concept of "free expression". Especially on the birthday of our nation.


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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:20 pm
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By the way, if you had only heard him on a CD - and never heard his speaking voice or seen his face or his performance on video - you would assume it to be entirely normal and/or natural. Why on God's earth should it bother anyone that his singing voice is so different to his speaking voice? And why should it bother anyone that he moves his face in a certain way?

Isn't it about the music?!

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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:24 pm
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Sorry, but this thread seems to have lost touch with all reality and the facts as supported by the actual posts contained herein. There is no reasonable debate or acknowledgement of the arguments.

This concludes my contributions here. Apologies to other members and Fender for my participation in it.

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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:28 pm
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Guys,

For real, just let it go.

Blues Rev., If you keep dragging this back out page after page the thread is going to get locked down. I understand that the way that Maruuk chose to phrase his criticsm of JM's singing style may have offended or potentially offended some, but what's done is done and Brad chose not to lock it down and wipe the comment. That's his call.

Maruuk, surely you realize that voicing your opinions in the way you did might have potentially offended someone, in hindsight. Using the criticsms of Jagger and Elvis and the way they were worded aren't really relevent as the world is a much different place then it was 40-50 years ago. However, You have a right to your opinion and a right to express it, and no one is arguing that.

To lighten the mood....
It could be worse...you could be a bass player and no one would care what you say anyhow. :wink:



D

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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:30 pm
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There you go! I've spoken my peace, let the lovefest continue! :D


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Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:50 am
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Just wanted to say what i meant to say a few posts ago was who he is not how he is. when you're trying to type fast sometimes you type things wrong. So now back to the topic.


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