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Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:45 am
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mthorn00 wrote:
I'm with you. Ugly as homemade sin and basically irrelavant. What Gibson really needs to do (and Fender to a much lesser degree) is focus on making high quality AFFORDABLE instruments. My main issue is the affordability. No production guitar should cost $5k that is just robbery.


And a quality, bolt together production line guitar shouldn't cost much over a grand either.

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Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:02 am
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63supro wrote:
Variety cost money in manufacturing and warehousing. I'd rather have the money in my pocket or invested in another quality guitar.


a VERY good point. Though cutting down the catalogue limits the customer base. I don't think Fender worry too much about storage. I think they have enough brown dirt. But a more focused productionline would make for a better overall standard of instrument. Less balls ups getting through to the shops. That was the main problem with CBS wasn't it. The huge turnout of produce threw quality control out the window.

Then again full attention to detail is why we have the Custom Shop. Very much the only way to own a real Fender produced the same way FMC did. When you consider inflation their actually cheaper than buying one in 54.

The simple fact is that we as musicians are spoilt by cheap prices. You'll never see even a semi serious brass or woodwind player gripe about spending $2000-$30,000 on a instrument.
Seen the prices of double basses lately?
http://www.uptonbass.com/the-upton-bass-double-basses/
$2200 for a plywood laminated double bass :shock: :shock: :shock:
I mean if ever there was a archaic instrument that should be thrown into the 'embarrasing idea' trashcan of history. There is your first candidate. Sound terrible and are hard to play. Let alone transport.

I'm suprised that more hasn't been done with guitar modelling in the bass world. Them guys are much more open minded than guitarists. Aside from the tremolo, every other modern innovation happened on bass first.

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Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:11 am
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nikininja wrote:
63supro wrote:
Variety cost money in manufacturing and warehousing. I'd rather have the money in my pocket or invested in another quality guitar.


a VERY good point. Though cutting down the catalogue limits the customer base. I don't think Fender worry too much about storage. I think they have enough brown dirt. But a more focused productionline would make for a better overall standard of instrument. Less balls ups getting through to the shops. That was the main problem with CBS wasn't it. The huge turnout of produce threw quality control out the window.

Then again full attention to detail is why we have the Custom Shop. Very much the only way to own a real Fender produced the same way FMC did. When you consider inflation their actually cheaper than buying one in 54.

The simple fact is that we as musicians are spoilt by cheap prices. You'll never see even a semi serious brass or woodwind player gripe about spending $2000-$30,000 on a instrument.
Seen the prices of double basses lately?
http://www.uptonbass.com/the-upton-bass-double-basses/
$2200 for a plywood laminated double bass :shock: :shock: :shock:
I mean if ever there was a archaic instrument that should be thrown into the 'embarrasing idea' trashcan of history. There is your first candidate. Sound terrible and are hard to play. Let alone transport.

I'm suprised that more hasn't been done with guitar modelling in the bass world. Them guys are much more open minded than guitarists. Aside from the tremolo, every other modern innovation happened on bass first.


I actually have an original 72 Strat that I quite like and had since it was new. I had to play a few before I found it though. Now it need a re-fret and some new bridge saddles. I may go with something stamped steel instead of the cast jobbers it has now. We'll see.

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Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:18 am
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63supro wrote:
And a quality, bolt together production line guitar shouldn't cost much over a grand either.


I'm in total agreement with you. If it's a handmade, Custom Shop instrument then it's a different story (I still think folks that buy them are nuts, but it's their money). Assembly line guitars need to be realistically priced, that's why more and more Fender players are buying the MIM's and top line Squiers instead of the USA manufactured instruments. The US made ones just aren't THAT much better.

I "passed" on a Gibson SG and bought the Epiphone Prophecy SG Custom. Not quite as nice as the Gibby, but it looks very good, and sounds GREAT. All for around $400 (if I remember correctly) with a hardshell case.

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Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:33 am
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mthorn00 wrote:
63supro wrote:
And a quality, bolt together production line guitar shouldn't cost much over a grand either.


I'm in total agreement with you. If it's a handmade, Custom Shop instrument then it's a different story (I still think folks that buy them are nuts, but it's their money). Assembly line guitars need to be realistically priced, that's why more and more Fender players are buying the MIM's and top line Squiers instead of the USA manufactured instruments. The US made ones just aren't THAT much better.

I "passed" on a Gibson SG and bought the Epiphone Prophecy SG Custom. Not quite as nice as the Gibby, but it looks very good, and sounds GREAT. All for around $400 (if I remember correctly) with a hardshell case.


Right now I'm looking at an EPI 1960 LE Les Paul. Only 1,960 will be made world wide it has Gibson Burstbucker's Mallory 150 caps and Switchcraft toggle switch. I just can't see Gibson's pricing. All thier guitars should be nice, not just the high end models. The Melody Maker is pretty sweet though for a bottom feeder.

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Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:41 am
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Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:52 am
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Somebody's really bored. :roll: Just from a photographers point of view, there's a lot of copyright infringement going on here. Just a heads up.

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Last edited by 63supro on Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:57 am
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WOW

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Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:20 am
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mthorn00 wrote:
WOW


I don't have the time for that :) Just passing along a funny.


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Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:36 am
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63supro wrote:
The beatdown is people not buying them. Gibson and Fender both need to concentrate on building high quality preferably American made instruments.

Fender has what a bozillion models of the Stratocaster? Plus a ton of Signature guitars? How many John Mayer guitars do we need? Gibson's the same way. How many Slash guitars do we as musicians need? For me the answer's zero. LOL All this variety add to the cost of manufacturing cost of every guitar they make. Years ago we modded our own guitars to get what we wanted for a special tone. Now it's all cookie cutter garbage. Don't get me wrong, I own a couple imported guitars. They didn't cost much. But for companies like Gibson, Fender, ect that were started here, I feel they should keep America working.

Variety cost money in manufacturing and warehousing. I'd rather have the money in my pocket or invested in another quality guitar.



I agree with you that variety cost money. Look at GM. there's another example. Though just divisions of a mega production giant, Olds, and Pontiac got dropped after a long and storied history.
Don't get me wrong, variety is good but too much diversification can
wreak havoc on a company.
As for the imports. The balance of manufacture is in China's favor, and the US is doing little to nothing about American jobs and occupational preparation programs for future employment. I am seeing a huge shift waiting for the kids of the American future and if Americans continue to suck up foreign products like it's been doing, it's a future that doesn't look good at all, I'm afraid.

:roll:


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Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:46 am
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It will be interesting to see what the Republicans will do about it and whether they have the balls to step on big manufacturers balls. :shock:

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Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:55 am
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63supro wrote:
It will be interesting to see what the Republicans will do about it and whether they have the balls to step on big manufacturers balls. :shock:


I seriously doubt they've got the balls to withstand a tempting bribe.


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Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:07 am
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Variety is good . . . up to a point. Beyond that it starts becoming obvious marketing "gimmickry".

:!: Stratocaster in S-S-S config
:!: Stratocaster in H-S-S config
:!: Stratocaster in H-S-H
:!: Stratocaster in H-H config
:!: Stratocaster in H-H-H config
:!: Stratocaster in Single H with only Master Vol

:arrow: All of the above but "hardtail"!
:arrow: All of the above but with double locking tremolo!
:arrow: All of the above in "special" limited time colors!

:!: :!: :!: All of the above . . . but in a John Mayer Signature model! (sorry I had to do it) :wink:

I realize some of these models aren't in production YET but just you wait and see.
Heck the new "Black Top Strat" is just an H-H Strat with amp knobs (just how does that make it a better guitar or an improvement on anything? It's just a gimmick)

It's most obvious with the Strat's and Tele's because Fender seem's to almost come out with a "flavor of the week" with their flagship guitars. But if you look at the product line in general it's really pretty bloated. Cut the BS and focus on making quality, reasonably priced instruments, in a realistic number of varieties.

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Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:43 pm
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patharte wrote:
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I laughed so hard at this! Holy Crap.

I will defend fender to a limit and that limit is $900

I didn't see anyone bring up "Road Worn" i think that is the biggest piece of crap Fender has released in several years.

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Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:02 pm
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I may have brought up the Roadworn series. Can't stand them either. Cookie cutter relic jobs. I rather buy a Squire and drag it behind my car for a while and make my own.

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