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Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:56 am
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Martian wrote:
From what I've seen over the years, a truly good rhythm player is almost extinct. Back in the day when I was learning, it was required of you to be an excellent rhythm player first before you could even be considered as a lead player.

My advice (after over 40 years of playing and formal training):

First, close all the instructional books, DVDs and whatever else; put away the metronome. It's time to trade mechanics for dynamics.

Next, choose a song with a catchy beat and learn the chords and the changes well. In other words, learn the song well. Select for example, a simple Beatles song. It doesn't have to be the Beatles per se, but you get the idea.

Now, once having learned whatever song you've chosen. Sit there and start playing it as if you had to hold the whole song together just by your strumming. That doesn't mean to overplay either. You'll find that you have to create accents here and there simply by following the singer. Yes, following the singer, NOT trying to lead the singer. Your objective is to make the singing sound great. Once you are comfortable that you are truly supporting what the singer is doing, listen deeper into your chosen song for certain accents that the instruments are doing and try to mimic them in your strum.

In terms of the big picture, what you are trying to do is to convey the essence of the entire song through your strumming. There are many tricks to help you with strumming such as NOT pausing with your strumming hand while playing. Rather, you mute the strings with your fingering hand when you feel for example, that you might be on the verge of over playing What this muting business does is that it keeps the beat strong and believe it or not, makes you sound like you're doing something really complicated. Oh, and to pull off the essence of the entire song through just your rhythm playing alone, do NOT try to clone the strum of the actual record. Remember, that person has the backing of an entire band to convey the song. You on the other hand, have to come up with it all by yourself.

Build on the above and you should really start to take off.

I've been playing for 20 years, and I've never heard it explained so Well. I can feel my Ryhthm improving as I type. Thanks Martian :D

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Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:53 am
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FirstMeasure wrote:
Martian wrote:
From what I've seen over the years, a truly good rhythm player is almost extinct. Back in the day when I was learning, it was required of you to be an excellent rhythm player first before you could even be considered as a lead player.

My advice (after over 40 years of playing and formal training):

First, close all the instructional books, DVDs and whatever else; put away the metronome. It's time to trade mechanics for dynamics.

Next, choose a song with a catchy beat and learn the chords and the changes well. In other words, learn the song well. Select for example, a simple Beatles song. It doesn't have to be the Beatles per se, but you get the idea.

Now, once having learned whatever song you've chosen. Sit there and start playing it as if you had to hold the whole song together just by your strumming. That doesn't mean to overplay either. You'll find that you have to create accents here and there simply by following the singer. Yes, following the singer, NOT trying to lead the singer. Your objective is to make the singing sound great. Once you are comfortable that you are truly supporting what the singer is doing, listen deeper into your chosen song for certain accents that the instruments are doing and try to mimic them in your strum.

In terms of the big picture, what you are trying to do is to convey the essence of the entire song through your strumming. There are many tricks to help you with strumming such as NOT pausing with your strumming hand while playing. Rather, you mute the strings with your fingering hand when you feel for example, that you might be on the verge of over playing What this muting business does is that it keeps the beat strong and believe it or not, makes you sound like you're doing something really complicated. Oh, and to pull off the essence of the entire song through just your rhythm playing alone, do NOT try to clone the strum of the actual record. Remember, that person has the backing of an entire band to convey the song. You on the other hand, have to come up with it all by yourself.

Build on the above and you should really start to take off.

I've been playing for 20 years, and I've never heard it explained so Well. I can feel my Ryhthm improving as I type. Thanks Martian :D


Glad to help!


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Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:12 am
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Martian wrote:
From what I've seen over the years, a truly good rhythm player is almost extinct. Back in the day when I was learning, it was required of you to be an excellent rhythm player first before you could even be considered as a lead player.

My advice (after over 40 years of playing and formal training):

First, close all the instructional books, DVDs and whatever else; put away the metronome. It's time to trade mechanics for dynamics.

Next, choose a song with a catchy beat and learn the chords and the changes well. In other words, learn the song well. Select for example, a simple Beatles song. It doesn't have to be the Beatles per se, but you get the idea.

Now, once having learned whatever song you've chosen. Sit there and start playing it as if you had to hold the whole song together just by your strumming. That doesn't mean to overplay either. You'll find that you have to create accents here and there simply by following the singer. Yes, following the singer, NOT trying to lead the singer. Your objective is to make the singing sound great. Once you are comfortable that you are truly supporting what the singer is doing, listen deeper into your chosen song for certain accents that the instruments are doing and try to mimic them in your strum.

In terms of the big picture, what you are trying to do is to convey the essence of the entire song through your strumming. There are many tricks to help you with strumming such as NOT pausing with your strumming hand while playing. Rather, you mute the strings with your fingering hand when you feel for example, that you might be on the verge of over playing What this muting business does is that it keeps the beat strong and believe it or not, makes you sound like you're doing something really complicated. Oh, and to pull off the essence of the entire song through just your rhythm playing alone, do NOT try to clone the strum of the actual record. Remember, that person has the backing of an entire band to convey the song. You on the other hand, have to come up with it all by yourself.

Build on the above and you should really start to take off.
Thank you sir for your advice I will take heed to it. I see a couple of my problems in your post, (trying to sound just like the record, and pausing).

I think the things I need to work on most are stanima, which I have found exercises for, my transitions, and just playing more.

The one thing that gets me is when single string notes or series of notes are mixed in with the strumming. This I struggle with horribly. I am happy just strumming and I think playing more will give me access to different rhythm patterns and shuffles and such.

The other thing I would like to learn is getting an idea of how and why certain chords go together. I now work mostly with I IV V progressions but don't know why and other than that I do what sounds good to me which is ok but there has to be some reason behind this. i have tried to read some theory and it is way above my head. I do like to make up my own rhythms and songs. I have lyrics to several songs and would love to put music to them, Don't know where to start. Matbe with time.

Again thanks for your time.


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Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:06 am
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timp wrote:
...The one thing that gets me is when single string notes or series of notes are mixed in with the strumming. This I struggle with horribly. I am happy just strumming and I think playing more will give me access to different rhythm patterns and shuffles and such.

The other thing I would like to learn is getting an idea of how and why certain chords go together. I now work mostly with I IV V progressions but don't know why and other than that I do what sounds good to me which is ok but there has to be some reason behind this. i have tried to read some theory and it is way above my head. I do like to make up my own rhythms and songs. I have lyrics to several songs and would love to put music to them, Don't know where to start. Matbe with time.

Again thanks for your time.


timp,

You're quite welcome.

Mixing notes with strumming is not going to help your quest for excellence in straight out rhythm stylings at the moment. Rather, it is a speed and dexterity issue, best left for future considerations. Like you said, you are struggling with it and so, such exercises at present will really mess you up with the timing of whatever it is you are attempting to play.

Way back when, I, like you, was frustrated with just playing I, IV and V progressions, being totally ignorant to all the surmised technicalities therein and my ever increasing exasperation for not having a clue. Do what I did: Stop worrying about it for the moment and remember that everyone one is their own worst critic. Never forget that! Allow yourself the logical progression musically where you take whatever time is personally necessary for you to learn to crawl before you attempt to crawl, to learn to walk before you attempt to walk and to learn to run before you attempt to run. Do NOT put yourself on some useless, self-imposed quota or deadline and certainly, don't start comparing yourself to or with others. Such things only serve to frazzle your brain and serve no constructive purpose.

Of course, always strive for improvement but at the same time, stop trying to compete with yourself and ENJOY what playing the guitar has to offer. We all have enough obligations stressing our lives without having to add another which, if put in the proper perspective, shall have the extreme opposite effect of a stressor.

Hang in there!


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Post subject: what can I add? LOL!
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:18 am
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Wow,
I can't really think of much to add here. :wink: I only wanted to be a rhythm player but ended up feeling like Rodney Dangerfield "I got no respect" :roll: until I got good at it and then had/have a blast jamming with the the lead players LOL!! :lol: Those guys really love/appreciate a good rhythm player. 8) At last! :lol: All really good postings/advice here and I have done the same things mostly during my career. :D I can only say get some books man!! 8) Ever heard of the Heavy Guitar Bible Vol. I & II. A must have! :lol: Also, when I was learning to play rhythm I was already a trained singer for many years and so I had to combine the 2. :? Difficult. :shock: The best way to do it was to practice each seperately and then add them together once I was solid on both individually. :!: Also, I did play bass for a few years and got real tight with the drummers and learned about the rhythm section being the backbone of the band. 8) Lead players/Singers are attention getting and an important draw but only if they got a solid band backing them. :wink: Anyway, check out those instructional DVD's and get some books, learn tab, chord books and posters for reference, and practice, practice, practice is the only method I know that truly works! Good luck on your endeavor. :D
PS "The Guitar Poster" in my jam room above my computer monitor :lol: ok bad cell phone pic :roll: but has a ton of valuable info about chords, a better look at it on the net : http://www.allposters.com/-sp/Guitar_i3 ... =252003033 :wink:
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Post subject:
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:01 pm
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Thank you both. I really haven't put any time frame on anything just want to get better.

The thing i think to do most is just play more and pracice, practice, practice!!!

thanks again. Oh and i printed this for inspiration and some understanding.


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Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:03 pm
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timp wrote:
Thank you both. I really haven't put any time frame on anything just want to get better.

The thing i think to do most is just play more and pracice, practice, practice!!!

thanks again. Oh and i printed this for inspiration and some understanding.


That's the spirit!!!


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Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:07 pm
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Hi everyone!

I have to say that this is the most interesting thread I have come across on a number of guitar based forums that I regularly frequent.

I am a Rhythm guitarist myself and te help offered by the "old pros" in here is just amazing and in my case well appreciated as well.

Thanks guys!


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Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:09 pm
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Great Thread!!

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Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:20 pm
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Great thread and great advice.
I'm 51 and tryin' to play jazzguitar (rhythm) now after playing blues
(l,lV and V) all my life.
I also like to play Santana rhythm's on the guitar.
Playing good rhythm guitar is sometimes more rewarding then lead.

Peter


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Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:41 pm
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I'm truly gratified that some find my suggestions useful. Although I was formally trained, I must make a point of this: Over my many years of playing, I've learned that there are so many things one can't learn out of a book or video. I've also found that if you can get together with other players for even a couple of hours a week to simply jam, you will automatically be exchanging information, ideas, techniques, dynamics and all that great stuff which goes into playing an instrument. This is infinitely better than shutting yourself up in a room and practicing for 12 hours a day by yourself.

I do have to correct one of my typos though:

In an earlier thread, I posted (in part) "Everyone one is their own worst critic." It should have read: "Everyone is their own worst critic."

Sorry for any confusion.


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Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:54 pm
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Martian wrote:
"Everyone is their own worst critic."


Yeah, I suck.

Only kidding.

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Is that a mexican poncho
Or is that a sears poncho?
Hmmm...no foolin ...." FZ


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Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:10 pm
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I agree that it's nice to see a thread once in awhile regarding rhythm playing. I was starting to think I was the last guy on earth that liked to play rhythm more than lead.

Not to hi-jack the original post, but it looks like he got many good answers so I thought I would ask what gutars, amps, effects, etc. you rhythm guys use? Unfortunately practically all reviews for guitars, pick-up's, amp's, etc. also revolve around lead guitar.

I'll start. I currently own a Classic Player 60's Strat, but it's getting traded in tomorrow for one of the new 08 American Strat's. My amp is a Mesa Boogie F-30. No effects at the time, but I'm looking for a good delay.

Although I have a Strat the American Tele is actually my favorite guitar and once the new models arrive I plan to buy one of those as well. The Tele is the best rhythm guitar on the planet IMO.


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Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:02 pm
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Kudos to all of the above! The cool thing is, is that you can be a rhythm player AND a lead player at the same time. Don't be afraid to mix it up, it's fun! Drive your music with rhythm, and then punch it with some lead guitar, and never let them know where you're coming from.


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Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:25 am
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cryingstrat wrote:
I gotta say it's nice to see a young guitar player say he wants to be a good rhythm guitar player. I've complained for many years, like an old man with nothing better to do, about how kids think they are guitar players and all they can do is shred. I remember a day back in 8th grade, 1972!! Me and some friends were standing around the lunch room talking guitars and stuff. I told them I didn't want to be a lead guitar player and wanted to be a great rhythm player. I've stuck to that and now have a chord vocabulary thats huge. That includes dozens of chords in 3 different tunings. These days I can hear a song and know exactly how to play it as soon as I know the key. Why? Because I understand chord progressions. Sweep arpeggios don't make a guitar player. Chords do. Learning a solo doesn't mean you know how to play a song. Knowing the chords does.

That's my two cents.


I agree with you cryingstrat. I'm more of a rhythm player myself actually creating my own chords. I am starting to learn how to play leads and stuff. I don't wanna just be a great rhythm guitar player though, I want to be a great guitar player over all haveing a good chord vocabulary and good leads and stuff. but yes chords are the basics you can't make a song on just a bunch of leads

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