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Post subject: "True Bypass" Is it all That?
Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:46 am
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I stumbled upon this interesting video regarding true bypass. What are your thoughts on this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOBn75-WN30

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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:55 am
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I think it depends on how many pedals you string together and what amp you are using.

Too many "tone-sucking" pedals with an amp that doesn't have a lot of high end to compensate will not sound good.

I used an old non-true-bypass wah pedal for a long time and never noticed a problem. That was because it was usually the only effect in my "chain" and I could compensate with my amp's tone controls for the slight loss of highs. When I finally converted that wah to a true bypass, I had to readjust slightly my tone controls. End result the same.

YMMV

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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:15 am
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It's just another marketing ploy. "True by pass", "Boutique", "Handwired", etc, they're just buzz words. Unless you have super hearing, you're not going to be able to tell the difference.

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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:58 am
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On the other hand, there is such a thing as having too many true bypass pedals in your effects chain, just like too many buffered pedals can sound bad. It's best to mix the two. I use 2 buffered pedals and 3 true bypass pedals and I can't hear the difference in tone between them and going straight into the amp.

Edit: I couldn't see the video before I posted. Now that I saw the video was from Visual Sound, I will say that one of the buffered pedals I use is a VS Route 66 pedal and the bypass sounds transparent to me. It's only guitarists that play alone at home with too much time and money on their hands that believe they can hear a difference to justify the $500 they spent on a boutique pedal that the builder spent more time handpainting the enclosure than he did on designing and assembling the circuit board :P

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Last edited by metropolis74 on Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:21 am
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Voodoo Blues wrote:
It's just another marketing ploy. "True by pass", "Boutique", "Handwired", etc, they're just buzz words. Unless you have super hearing, you're not going to be able to tell the difference.


I agree with you somewhat. I thought that also until I compared my cheapo Dunlop Crybaby wah between the guitar and amp and then guitar straight into the amp. It was a night and day difference in tone. I also tried the test with one of those stupid cheapo little plastic Danelctro pedals named after food (T-Bone or Ham Sandwich or whatever) and found the same result. But I haven't had a problem with Boss or other non-true bypass pedals in that same price range. You get what you pay for. My personal opinion is that any new pedal under $50 or so is crap, and any pedal over $150 or advertised with any of the buzzwords you listed could very well be overpriced hyped or "marketing ploy" as you so aptly call it.

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Last edited by metropolis74 on Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:22 am
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What was interesting most to me was that the length of the cable, over 25 feet, would influence the sound quality more, regardless if the cable was of high quality. The greater the length he stated, to more impedance on the signal and degrading the sound. This is much more apparent than that of "true bypass".

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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:45 am
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bluesguitar65 wrote:
What was interesting most to me was that the length of the cable, over 25 feet, would influence the sound quality more, regardless if the cable was of high quality. The greater the length he stated, to more impedance on the signal and degrading the sound. This is much more apparent than that of "true bypass".


I wonder how this guy's business is doing?

http://www.aqdi.com/zerocap.htm

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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:03 am
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Everything "sucked tone" way back, we just adapted and built our tone around it. Too many pedals and too much cable will effect your tone regardless of whether they're true bypass or not. Some are just worse than others. I keep my pedals to a bare minimum and create my tone with the guitar and amp.

If you like the way you sound, that's all that counts.

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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:24 am
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bluesguitar65 wrote:
What was interesting most to me was that the length of the cable, over 25 feet, would influence the sound quality more, regardless if the cable was of high quality. The greater the length he stated, to more impedance on the signal and degrading the sound. This is much more apparent than that of "true bypass".
I think the length of cable can really cause decay of sound. But I also think better cable helps lessen the decay same length to length along with better shielding for outside interference.

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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:38 am
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Miami Mike wrote:
bluesguitar65 wrote:
What was interesting most to me was that the length of the cable, over 25 feet, would influence the sound quality more, regardless if the cable was of high quality. The greater the length he stated, to more impedance on the signal and degrading the sound. This is much more apparent than that of "true bypass".


I wonder how this guy's business is doing?

http://www.aqdi.com/zerocap.htm


May as well go active with your guitar pickups than use that. A lot more control, versatility and will last longer than a year.

I honestly don't go in for this true bypass nonsense. Your amps likely not a 'pure tone' anyway. Unless of course you're using a solidstate keyboard amp with no preamp eq controls.

All the greats never worried about it, don't think I'll bother either. If you're that worried about it, sit a eq pedal ontop of your amp with 4" of lead between the amp and eq. Run your pedals into that, add a bit of high frequency boost if needed.
Wonder why the first trebleboosters were amp top affairs?

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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:50 am
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I never worried about it LOL. Still don't. That's what tone controls are for. Your audience isn't going to sit there and say " I wonder what's sucking this guys tone?" If they're loaded, they'll start telling you to crank it up. Who started all this stuff Eric Johnson? Look at some of the old Hendrix videos with a mile of cheap coil cords, Fuzz Face, Roto Vibe and a Wah. All the old timers ran some of the noisiest effects on the planet and still sounded great.

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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:01 pm
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63supro wrote:
I never worried about it LOL. Still don't. That's what tone controls are for. Your audience isn't going to sit there and say " I wonder what's sucking this guys tone?" If they're loaded, they'll start telling you to crank it up. Who started all this stuff Eric Johnson? Look at some of the old Hendrix videos with a mile of cheap coil cords, Fuzz Face, Roto Vibe and a Wah. All the old timers ran some of the noisiest effects on the planet and still sounded great.


Sactly.
It's about the overall sound, not just one aspect. Ok you may get somewhere by being able to zero in on a problem. I however feel these terms are banded around far too much. I bet that no other generation of guitarists or even musicians has worried about this stuff to the degree we do. Why? Because of the constant sales pitches were the targets of.

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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:21 pm
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Niki, I still pull out my 70's Fender Fuzz Wah and an old Ibanez Phase Tone with the one knob for speed and plug in my 63 Supro Martinique just for fun. Big time tone to the bone with a bit of hiss added for good measure. Badass stuff.

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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:11 pm
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so by converting the signal to low impedance cable length becomes much less of an issue, and that is where most of the signal is lost. so instead of buying super-expensive cable, you would be better off with good cable and low impedance. One of their pedals could offset the cost of a lot of cable. Is this correct?


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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:49 pm
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Deluxe Matt wrote:
so by converting the signal to low impedance cable length becomes much less of an issue, and that is where most of the signal is lost. so instead of buying super-expensive cable, you would be better off with good cable and low impedance. One of their pedals could offset the cost of a lot of cable. Is this correct?


Yes you should always use low capacitance leads. Anything else is very secondary. Don't bother with the hype out there about leads, just make sure there low capacitance cable. It's not expensive stuff, dont be fooled by the marketing hype of certain companies.
If you want to run effects without too much trouble like I say, have a eq at the end of your pedal chain. You don't even have to have it above a flatline. Just having the thing powered up seems to sort a lot of my woes out. Seems to give it just enough of a push.

Heres a blatant lift from the Session Award geartalk pdf.
Quote:
Instrument leads look similar and it’s easy to become confused as
which to buy, so here’s some guidelines from an electronics engineers
point of view, based on accepted technical facts.
What does ‘low loss’ mean? - It is
important to understand that all
screened cables reduce the high frequencies
that pass along them. The
longer the cable, the more the loss.
This is true of ANY make or type of
screened cable. Always select ‘low
loss’ cables for best performance when
using guitars or other similar instruments.
A good guitar cable will have an inter-conductor capacitance of 130pf (pico
farads) or less per metre. 6 metres is about the maximum length for a lead
used with passive guitar pickups. With passive electro-acoustic guitar transducers
you will need to keep guitar leads to an absolute minimum length,
otherwise treble will become heavily lost! Always fit a pre-amp to your electro-
acoustic if you can. If your guitar already has a pre-amp, then you can
use leads as long as you like without any problems or loss of tone.
Can cables make my sound more ‘juicy’? - No, cables cannot do this!
The signal passing along a cable cannot be improved, no matter what it’s
made from. Any such suggestion should be viewed as a dishonest claim.
What does ‘noiseless’ mean? - Some low cost cables, when used with
guitars, can cause a crackling sound when you move about. Noiseless cables
have a special conductive plastic layer inserted between the signal conductor
and the screening braid which removes this source of unwanted noise.
Should I buy leads with gold plated
plugs? - Don’t waste your money
on ‘hyped’ imported cables with gold
plated connectors. The thin soft gold
(5-10 microns) ‘flash’ plating looks
cool, but scrapes off easily and the
brass material underneath stops you
from seeing that the gold has worn off!
The brass eventually tarnishes and
causes crackling when the plug moves
or twists in the socket contacts.
The input socket inside your guitar amplifier is not usually gold either.
Gold is a very good conductor of electricity, but only when mated with a gold
plated socket.
Are ‘moulded’ jack plugs better? - In some respects, but cables usually
break just outside the plug where the cable gets bent a lot. So, if this happens,
you cant open the plug to repair it and you’ll have to throw it away.
Do I need special speaker cables? - Yes, using instrument cables for
connecting speakers is not recommended. Very
high currents pass along speaker cables, so you
need much thicker wire to handle it. Guitar
lead conductors are very thin and such use
could result in damage to your cables. Power
reaching the speakers may be reduced as well.
Don’t be tight... buy what’s right!
As with anything, common sense rules... so
try not to be fooled by marketing hype, glossy
adverts or music business mythology.
Cable Talk - For Guitar Players
© Stewart Ward, Award-Session - 2003. Free circulation is permitted
Just a few of the different cables and conversion
leads available from Award-Session
We only use the robust Neutrik range
of connectors favoured by the worlds
top studios and touring bands...
but, watch out for inferior copies!
Tip.... “A good cable does nothing to your tone”


Aside from that I'd like to be able to measure the difference in power from my guitar to my board, then from my board to my amp. Pedals are powered, they must push the signal along a little, like active pickups.
If thats correct (only a theory in my head at the moment, as far as I'm concerned) you only really have to worry about whats going into your board. If you wireless into your board, you've taken the majority of the problem out the way.

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