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Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:18 pm
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cvilleira wrote:
captain eyeball wrote:
JasonSD wrote:
Quote:
if the illegal job market dried up most illegal immigration would drop dramatically.


Or they'll just commit more crimes.

With the numbers that are coming over, we're basically being invaded, that's how I look at it. And I don't know why any american wouldn't want to try and stop that.


who are they and why do you think they would commit more crimes?

most illegals are law abiding, other than their immigration status, and extremely hard working doing jobs most americans won't do. illegals are no more likly to commit crimes then those that are here legally taking into considerations the socio-economic status of each.

yours and others characterization of the illegal immigration problem as an invasion is irresponsible political hyperbole.
And because they come here with no money they end up in the low socioeconomic group which are more likely to commit crimes so your wrong there. Also they suck up tax payer dollars by being allowed into programs because politicians feel sorry for them and want there vote so they don't want to deal with putting them in a bus and sending them home. Plus Captain did I read you right that you told SBLS to go patrol the borders then? Is that what its going to take the people arming and doing it for them selfs? If it keeps going as status quo them days may happen, not the first country in the world to implode do to a difference in peoples thoughts and it won't be the last.


cv you should read more carefully, stay on point, and not take things out of context.

first, i said that illegals are no more likely to commit crimes than anyone here legally in the same socio-economic group.

second, this thread is discussing the merit of the arizona immigration law not whether or not we should provide social services for illegal immigrants, an entirely different issue.

lastly, my response to solid body love songs was referencing his feeling that obama wasn't doing enough about the issue because he was taking time out to celebrate a birthday. i merely pointed out that if he thought obama should be in crisis mode than maybe he should be in crisis mode.


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Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:27 pm
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We and Us!!!! He has divided us as a nation even more then we were under Bush!!!! Pushing bills that are obvious the majority don't want. If we weren't under one party rule at this time they would never have passed. Also the reason that one party will be loosing big this November. It is obvious that most Americans won't illegal immigration stopped and caps put on who can immigrate. Like most other first world countries.

Following is a list of jobs from a country over seas that people are not allowed to legally immigrate there to do.

All Clerical and Administrative Positions
All General Operatives/Labourers
All Operator and Production Staff
All Domestic Workers (including Carers in the Home and Childminders)
All Work Riders (Horse Racing)
In the category 'Sales Staff'
All retail sales vacancies, sales representatives, Supervisory/ Specialist Sales
In the category 'Transport Staff':
All drivers including HGV
In the category Childcare Workers:
Nursery/ Crèche Workers, Child Minder/ Nanny
In the category 'Hotel Tourism and Catering':
All staff except chefs
In the category 'Craft Workers and Apprentice/Trainee Craft Workers':
Bookbinder, Bricklayer, Cabinet Maker, Carpenter/Joiner, Carton
Maker, Fitter - Construction Plant, Electrician, Instrumentation
Craftsperson, Fitter, Tiler - Floor/Wall, Mechanic - Heavy Vehicles,
Instrumentation Craftsperson, Metal Fabricator, Mechanic - Motor,
Originator, Painter And Decorator, Plumber, Printer, Engineer -
Refrigeration, Sheet Metal Worker, Tool Maker, Vehicle Body Repairer,
Machinist – Wood, Plasterers and Welders

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson


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Post subject:
Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:35 pm
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captain eyeball wrote:
cvilleira wrote:
captain eyeball wrote:
JasonSD wrote:
Quote:
if the illegal job market dried up most illegal immigration would drop dramatically.


Or they'll just commit more crimes.

With the numbers that are coming over, we're basically being invaded, that's how I look at it. And I don't know why any american wouldn't want to try and stop that.


who are they and why do you think they would commit more crimes?

most illegals are law abiding, other than their immigration status, and extremely hard working doing jobs most americans won't do. illegals are no more likly to commit crimes then those that are here legally taking into considerations the socio-economic status of each.

yours and others characterization of the illegal immigration problem as an invasion is irresponsible political hyperbole.
And because they come here with no money they end up in the low socioeconomic group which are more likely to commit crimes so your wrong there. Also they suck up tax payer dollars by being allowed into programs because politicians feel sorry for them and want there vote so they don't want to deal with putting them in a bus and sending them home. Plus Captain did I read you right that you told SBLS to go patrol the borders then? Is that what its going to take the people arming and doing it for them selfs? If it keeps going as status quo them days may happen, not the first country in the world to implode do to a difference in peoples thoughts and it won't be the last.


cv you should read more carefully, stay on point, and not take things out of context.

first, i said that illegals are no more likely to commit crimes than anyone here legally in the same socio-economic group.

second, this thread is discussing the merit of the arizona immigration law not whether or not we should provide social services for illegal immigrants, an entirely different issue.

lastly, my response to solid body love songs was referencing his feeling that obama wasn't doing enough about the issue because he was taking time out to celebrate a birthday. i merely pointed out that if he thought obama should be in crisis mode than maybe he should be in crisis mode.
The reason for the Arizona law is because they are using social programs that they can no longer afford. And yes they are more likely to commit crimes because they come here with no resources and are in the lower socioeconomic group that does commit more crimes don't we have enough people in this position already? None of that is off point. Who pays for there health care, education, welfare and other assistance. All these things are the point of Arizona's law along with the fact the federal government is not doing enough.

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson


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Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:46 pm
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Solid Body Love Songs wrote:
captain eyeball wrote:
Solid Body Love Songs wrote:
captain eyeball wrote:
"if you think the arizona law is right...how do you deal with this legitimate concern?......"
I thought passing the law was right and the best way to deal but the fed has different ideas that are not known by us

"how do you settle the argument the federal government has made, that matters regarding immigration have been and are federal law, and to allow individual states to set their own immigration law will result in possibly 50 different immigration laws thereby causing an enormous amount of confusion?"

I am pretty sure all 50 states aren't going to change immigration laws because all 50 states aren't experiencing the same immigration problems and thought the fed will say just about anything to make it appear as if they are right. AZ has a huge problem and as I said in an earlier post the big guy's birthday party is happening as I'm typing this, that is the most important gov. thing happening today but guaranteed illegal immigrants are steaming across our southern border birthday or no.


again you stone walled although you tried to answer my concern. even if only 2 states change their laws confusion in this area will ensue. and i don't agree with your statement that the federal government will say just about anything to appear right.

and why you would expect anyone including the president to stop living his life by celebrating a birthday and go into crisis mode and only deal with the immigration issue is ridiculous and is not pertinent to this threads discussion of the arizona immigration law.

why don't you go into crisis mode...stop posting on the fender message board, cease writing your love songs, and playing musical instruments, sell everything you own and move to arizona and volunteer to patrol the boarder until the immigration problem is solved.

if you are expecting the president to go into crisis mode over this and you are so concerned, why don't you put your money where your mouth is?


captain eyeball wrote:
again you stone walled although you tried to answer my concern. even if only 2 states change their laws confusion in this area will ensue. and i don't agree with your statement that the federal government will say just about anything to appear right.

no comment

captain eyeball wrote:
and why you would expect anyone including the president to stop living his life by celebrating a birthday and go into crisis mode and only deal with the immigration issue is ridiculous and is not pertinent to this threads discussion of the arizona immigration law.

I guess with 2 wars, an invasion by illegal immigrants, destruction of the Gulf of Mexico, 1 job for every 3 looking, people still losing their homes to foreclosure, a war zone in the big guy's hometown, and I'll stop there, don't you think that a little cake in the Oval Office with his family and ones close to him would look much better? If asked, "why such a small celebration?" he could say something like, "We as a country have a lot of work to do so I will be staying in Washington until there are some marked improvements on many of the issues facing us", I used the we and us words that he used so much during his campaign, they worked well then and could help again.

captain eyeball wrote:
why don't you go into crisis mode...stop posting on the fender message board, cease writing your love songs, and playing musical instruments, sell everything you own and move to arizona and volunteer to patrol the boarder until the immigration problem is solved.

I'm thinking walking along the border with a pad and pencil stopping periodically to strum a new chord progression on my guitar doesn't scare the illegals in my neighborhood so I doubt any of the desperado's on the border would notice me there.

captain eyeball wrote:
if you are expecting the president to go into crisis mode over this and you are so concerned, why don't you put your money where your mouth is?

I didn't spend 20 million dollars to get a job that only pays a half mil, so,
captain you probably know the answer as to why a person would do such a ridiculous thing, and, you can be right all of the time here, if you insist, so you are right and every one else isn't, that should make you feel better.


has nothing to do with being right or wrong. it has to do with being fair and knowing how to debate logically without resorting to fallacious reasoning. your feeling that obama should be in crisis mode is laughable.

i already knew you would say something like...i am not the president so a different standard applies to me. fair enough. but if you feel so strongly head down to arizona and give them a hand.

also, as far as him staying in washington...may have been true in years past...but in this modern communication age it is not necessary.

all the problems you listed...the two wars, the economic downturn resulting in serious unemployment, the oil spill and foreclosure problems obama did not cause. you can thank your buddy george bush and his band of war mongers, thieves, and unwise deregulationists for all of those problems.

it pointless to discuss obama with you and the majority of the people in this thread because it is clear many of you hate him so much you cannot remain objective.


Last edited by captain eyeball on Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:16 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:57 pm
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Personally, I don't like it. The best Mexican food for the money is made by illegals, and I love Mexican food. <_< Just my 2 cents worth :P

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I traded my car in for a microphone.


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Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:09 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
captain eyeball wrote:
yours and others characterization of the illegal immigration problem as an invasion is irresponsible political hyperbole.


¡No entiendas mierda, ladrone!

So stop pretending that you do!

I've recovered the bodies of poor campesinos who died tragically out in the desert due to exposure and abuse from coyotes, I've seen the "rape trees" where the coyotes had their way with the women and children, I've helped clean up traffic accident scenes where 14 or 15 souls met their maker because some coyote refused to put decent tires on his van, I've heard the gunfire from narco-traficantes not a block and a half from my own home as they shot it out with both our local PD and US customs agents. And I personally knew Rob Kreuntz.

Your histrionic protestations are meaningless.

Arjay


obviously you have been through a lot. but how does any of that make you more qualified to set immigration policy then anyone else?

and how dare you say i am pretending to care about illegal immigration. i do care...i just don't agree with people like you and the arizona law as a solution for the problem. i may disagree with you but i would never call into question the sincerity of you beliefs.

mudo y más mudo


Last edited by captain eyeball on Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:11 pm
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cvilleira wrote:
captain eyeball wrote:
cvilleira wrote:
captain eyeball wrote:
JasonSD wrote:
Quote:
if the illegal job market dried up most illegal immigration would drop dramatically.


Or they'll just commit more crimes.

With the numbers that are coming over, we're basically being invaded, that's how I look at it. And I don't know why any american wouldn't want to try and stop that.


who are they and why do you think they would commit more crimes?

most illegals are law abiding, other than their immigration status, and extremely hard working doing jobs most americans won't do. illegals are no more likly to commit crimes then those that are here legally taking into considerations the socio-economic status of each.

yours and others characterization of the illegal immigration problem as an invasion is irresponsible political hyperbole.
And because they come here with no money they end up in the low socioeconomic group which are more likely to commit crimes so your wrong there. Also they suck up tax payer dollars by being allowed into programs because politicians feel sorry for them and want there vote so they don't want to deal with putting them in a bus and sending them home. Plus Captain did I read you right that you told SBLS to go patrol the borders then? Is that what its going to take the people arming and doing it for them selfs? If it keeps going as status quo them days may happen, not the first country in the world to implode do to a difference in peoples thoughts and it won't be the last.


cv you should read more carefully, stay on point, and not take things out of context.

first, i said that illegals are no more likely to commit crimes than anyone here legally in the same socio-economic group.

second, this thread is discussing the merit of the arizona immigration law not whether or not we should provide social services for illegal immigrants, an entirely different issue.

lastly, my response to solid body love songs was referencing his feeling that obama wasn't doing enough about the issue because he was taking time out to celebrate a birthday. i merely pointed out that if he thought obama should be in crisis mode than maybe he should be in crisis mode.
The reason for the Arizona law is because they are using social programs that they can no longer afford. And yes they are more likely to commit crimes because they come here with no resources and are in the lower socioeconomic group that does commit more crimes don't we have enough people in this position already? None of that is off point. Who pays for there health care, education, welfare and other assistance. All these things are the point of Arizona's law along with the fact the federal government is not doing enough.


if you say so.......


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Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:22 pm
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captain eyeball wrote:
cvilleira wrote:
captain eyeball wrote:
cvilleira wrote:
captain eyeball wrote:
JasonSD wrote:
Quote:
if the illegal job market dried up most illegal immigration would drop dramatically.


Or they'll just commit more crimes.

With the numbers that are coming over, we're basically being invaded, that's how I look at it. And I don't know why any american wouldn't want to try and stop that.


who are they and why do you think they would commit more crimes?

most illegals are law abiding, other than their immigration status, and extremely hard working doing jobs most americans won't do. illegals are no more likly to commit crimes then those that are here legally taking into considerations the socio-economic status of each.

yours and others characterization of the illegal immigration problem as an invasion is irresponsible political hyperbole.
And because they come here with no money they end up in the low socioeconomic group which are more likely to commit crimes so your wrong there. Also they suck up tax payer dollars by being allowed into programs because politicians feel sorry for them and want there vote so they don't want to deal with putting them in a bus and sending them home. Plus Captain did I read you right that you told SBLS to go patrol the borders then? Is that what its going to take the people arming and doing it for them selfs? If it keeps going as status quo them days may happen, not the first country in the world to implode do to a difference in peoples thoughts and it won't be the last.


cv you should read more carefully, stay on point, and not take things out of context.

first, i said that illegals are no more likely to commit crimes than anyone here legally in the same socio-economic group.

second, this thread is discussing the merit of the arizona immigration law not whether or not we should provide social services for illegal immigrants, an entirely different issue.

lastly, my response to solid body love songs was referencing his feeling that obama wasn't doing enough about the issue because he was taking time out to celebrate a birthday. i merely pointed out that if he thought obama should be in crisis mode than maybe he should be in crisis mode.
The reason for the Arizona law is because they are using social programs that they can no longer afford. And yes they are more likely to commit crimes because they come here with no resources and are in the lower socioeconomic group that does commit more crimes don't we have enough people in this position already? None of that is off point. Who pays for there health care, education, welfare and other assistance. All these things are the point of Arizona's law along with the fact the federal government is not doing enough.


if you say so.......
I sure do and it sure is!!!! What other reason is there?

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson


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Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:27 pm
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captain eyeball wrote:

"has nothing to do with being right or wrong. it has to do with being fair and knowing how to debate logically without resorting to fallacious reasoning. your feeling that obama should be in crisis mode is laughable."

obama and his many backers (read - George Soros ) have nothing to do with being right but do embrace fallacious reasoning as the main tool in logical debate, always, and if you question such, well, read what you have so far written.

"i already knew you would say something like...i am not the president so a different standard applies to me. fair enough. but if you feel so strongly head down to arizona and give them a hand."

i already knew you would say something like head down to arizona and give them a hand. which is why I am using words for the most part from your postings, you are not a nice guy and now I doubt that you play guitar either. If you wonder why that is, read on (sorry I wrote "I doubt that you play guitar" that was me being frustrated Bro I didn't mean it)

"also, as far as him staying in washington...may have been true in years past...but in this modern communication age it is not necessary."

why have a capitol at all if that is true, unless it is more of your fallacious reasoning

"all the problems you listed...the two wars, the economic downturn resulting in serious unemployment, the oil spill and foreclosure problems obama did not cause. you can thank your buddy george bush and his band of war mongers, thieves, and unwise deregulationists for all of those problems."

to quote you again "i already knew you would say something like"

"it pointless to discuss obama with you and the majority of the people in this thread because it is clear many of you hate him so much you cannot remain objective."

the only one preaching hate is you Bro, I looked in these posts and you are the one using the speech of it, cleverly disguised but coming from you only.
"laughable." you are the only one laughing, people affected by things discussed in this thread are not laughing. so I gotta be done with this if you want to spend more time on politics wiki Mr. Soros that should be enlightening for you.

_________________
you can save the world with your guitar one love song at a time it's just better, more fun, easier with a fender solid body electric guitar or electric bass guitar.


Last edited by Solid Body Love Songs on Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:45 pm
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This should do it and probably save us money, our own version of the DMZ along Mexican boarder.
Image

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson


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Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:55 pm
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cvilleira wrote:
This should do it and probably save us money, our own version of the DMZ along Mexican boarder.
Image



http://phoenix.fanster.com/wordpress/wp ... _dirty.jpg


http://www.balloon-juice.com/wp-content ... heline.jpg


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Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:38 pm
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all i have to add is...if you're ever in Philadelphia, eat a Geno's cheesesteak. Support the cause, give jobs back to the American taxpayers.

That is all.


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Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 4:20 am
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tbazzone wrote:
Nothing wrong with the law. Something wrong with the Feds.


+1
Its amazing to me that the highest levels of our government are so determined to let illegals flow in, roam freely, work, and let the tax payers foot the bill for thier healthcare. If I were an illegal in another country I would expect to be arrested and sent back. :?

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"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives." Blazing Saddles...


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Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:41 am
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I hope more states follow suit even though it got blocked by the feds in court to a large degree. They sure are listening to the people over there on the hill. I'd even take it a step further. Close White Sands missile testing facility and re open a new one along border. Also set up U.S. military sniper schools at various points all the way to the pacific coast. I'm sure there'd be a significant drop in crossings.


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Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 3:03 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
airbornestrat wrote:
...might be time to retire and go to the mountains!
ABS :evil:


I'm already there, ABS -- the Huachuca Mountains.

One thing the illegals are fond of doing is to start a forest fire in one area and wait for all the first responders, police, fire, border patrol etc to deploy there. Then they sneak across another undefended part of the county. A lot of homeowners and ranchers have been totally burned out in this manner but you'll never hear that from the lame-stream media. I'm now strapped 24/7/365.

Arjay


Arjay,
That is why I have guns...some SOB ever tries that when I retire in the Adirondacks and they will get an $@! full of lead. The fundamental problem is that the clowns that we elect want to be popular with the world no matter the cost. I am all for immigration, heck I am 1st generation American and until the day I die I will defend this land with my whole heart and soul, but what I can't abide by is that I follow the laws and rules, pay my taxes and am a good citizen...do I get everything handed to me...NO. Some sorry criminal comes here and is given everything...lets take care of all the homeless vets who have served their country lets take care of OUR homeless citizens and ensure that they have homes jobs and a good way of life...then once our house is in order we can look at helping the rest of the world! Anytime you need some backup out there I would love to come out and help!! Plus we could do some serious jamming in the down times..:)
ABS :D

PS Sorry for the rant guys...


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