The only problem with that is, there is currently no law in any state or at the federal level that requires a US citizen (native-born or naturalized) to carry such credentials within the country. To do so otherwise smacks of a federalized national ID card which many in this country have resisted -- mightily, I would add -- for decades now. The logic of these opponents runs from the fear of an eventual requirement for UPC-style bar code tattoos to implanted RFID chips to jack-booted "new world order" thugs, black helicopters and on and on. Personally, I never leave my home without at least three bonafide photo IDs; my driver's license, my DD2AF (retired military ID card) and my AZ CCW permit. With my Mediterranean features I could easily pass for a Hispanic but no police officer or government agent has ever asked me for my birth certificate or my passport in the course of a routine encounter.

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY

Not to contradict you here, but in my state you have to have either a birth certificate, social security card, or green card to get a Driver's license or State ID. There is your proof of citizenship or right to be in the country legally. Can ID/DL's be faked...yes, but so can money. They have ways to determine if money if fake, why not ID cards and drivers licenses. Also in my state it is required to have ID on you at all times...so "I forgot my ID/DL at home" does not fly around here. Texas State law there. You spend time in jail or police stations until someone can verify who you are.

I have no problems with non-US citizens here in the States who have gone through the proper channels to be here. Proof that you have a right to be here...I am a firm believer in.

Unlike you, I am a white male who has a very mid-westerner dialect (even though I was born and raised in Texas), and would never be looked at as a possible illegal alien. However, I for one would show proof of ID/citizenship in a heartbeat if the law required it. What is so hard about showing an ID card if pulled over by the police? Don't you already have to show a driver's license if pulled over? Make it an all in 1 ID and individualized per state so the Federal Government does not get involved. That way we do not get that cool tattoo of bar code on our wrist or forehead or a tracking chip placed in us.

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RK

2007 Fender Highway 1
2012 American Deluxe
2015 MIM Dave Murray HHH
2010 Fender Blacktop
1987 Fender Avalon Acoustic
2012 Marshall DSL 15 watt head

You're preaching to the choir, RK. My post was intended as a "devil's advocate" rebuttal.

But the fact of the matter is, if someone is accosted by a federal agent in an official capacity who demands identification, that identification is, by and large, one issued under the aegis of a state government -- not the feds. And regardless of the issuing jurisdiction, that ID could easily be obtained fraudulently using stolen birth documents, bogus utility bills, phony voter registration credentials, and the like.

The fact of the matter is, a national ID card is needed. But most folks are loath to trust "big brother's umbrella" to that extent, perhaps rightfully so given the track record of other less-benevolent regimes at various points in mankind's history.

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY

I don't see the harm in it. It's essentially existing policy, but it lets law enforcement do something about ones who are illegal.

I'm seeing so many specials on people who are here illegally, are hard working, and don't want kicked out. It's tough because I understand they're here working hard in some cases, but the fact of the matter is that there are some who are ruining the system for all. It's not that hard to apply for citizenship. It's those, however, that come here and have kids that irk me or cause drug violence in innocent communities. Having a kid in the US? The government will pay for everything they need. Regardless of the fact that we don't have any money in the first place, but it's not biggie. But in some aspects that involve people honestly trying their hardest to make a living, it gets a bit more complex.

The law isn't racist, though, and those who say otherwise haven't read the bill. A previous violation has to be committed for them to even check. And checking papers happens in every stop. A drivers license is essentially a check of citizenship along with a card to supply the officer with information. Everyone gets checked, it's not racist. Police can't walk up to people on the side of the road with a darker skin complexion and simply demand paperwork. That's a civil rights violation, not properly justified use of the law.

I think the fed's challenge of it is a bit outlandish. AZ obviously has a problem along the border with violence, so it wants to do something. It comes with a consequence to illegals already here leading peaceful lives, however, there are naturalization processes for that and a window should be given to those, I think. No penalty naturalization in the next few years or so after background check and testimonials from employers, etc.

Just a few thoughts in a random, nonsensical order. My apologies.

Arizona is the same way. In fact according to the Indian folks I work with that are all on Visas (not green cards), the drivers license expires at the same time the visa expires... Kind of a pain in the $@! to have to renew both your visa and driver's license...

So, a driver's licence or AZ id card is sufficient to prove that you are in Arizona legally... You can tell that to the (more ignorant) liberals until you are blue in the face and they will come back and tell you are wrong..

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In Reference to Blues Legend RL Burnside:
After a heart attack in 2001, Burnside's doctor advised him to stop drinking; Burnside did, but he reported that change left him unable to play.

I Live in Phoenix, and I took a look at our local paper's front page today at work. It had a story about how this judge is selecting what points of the law to keep and what points not to. and it went on about how there are 12 million illegals here, blah blah, ... The story on the same page right next to that one, Front Page mind you, is how the government is extending the unemployment benefits again for the third time. I wonder when we get all these illegals out of here, can these unemployed folks get back to work? I hope so. It's bad enough most of this country's manufacturing base moved to country's like China, India,etc...now we have 3/4 of Mexico coming in here taking the rest of our jobs. The corporations that hire these people and the congressmen who line their pockets with their money are to blame. They do not want to pay a fair wage. Our own government is bought and paid for by the business lobby. They do not care about what the people want and thats both sides of the aisle.

The people that I have talked with about Arizona's law say that it mimics the Federal law that is already on the books. That being the case Washington should stop demonizing the state of Arizona because they are just using the federal law as a template for the new Arizona law.

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you can save the world with your guitar one love song at a time it's just better, more fun, easier with a fender solid body electric guitar or electric bass guitar.

does anybody remember the names of the 1st and 4th metallica albums?

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63supro
"The good thing is in a club situation, most of the patrons are trashed and really can't tell the difference."

Brad told me this wasn't the place for this type of discussion. So I'm not allowed to comment.

I think Brad is right. This is the third thread on the same subject. It's getting old.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... 29,r:6,s:0

Well, I'm in Phoenix and I heard on the radio that some watchdog group did a study and said Illegals cost tax payers like 113 billion a year or something like that. And it cost AZ like 2.6 billion a year, which is about what our deficit is.

I'm at work so can't do some research to back those numbers up, would have to look when I get home.

I am all for it!!!! Not much different then the Federal Law anyway but for the fact that Feds don't enforce it. Not going to mention which but one party figures its a way of importing voters for the party. Also a reason why years ago there was a push for Motor Voters laws in states. Maryland you didn't need to prove residency for a license and you were allowed to register to vote. How wrong is that, non citizens voting?

It is also a shame that obama is wasting tax payer money to fight it like theres lots of extra money!!!! He should be enforcing it as a Federal Law. I guess he is worried about his own citizenship that he has spent millions of his own money fighting to keep out of the courts

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson

The hell with all this legislative crap. Just give both countries entirely over to the drug cartels. Get some really good s--t to blow,l some awesome brew, some hot babes, turn on some "Pink Floyd" and party. Hell....that's about where they come to already. The Federal effort is about as good as a prepunctured condom in the pocket of a horny fourteen year-old boy. The way I see it, some napalm and Agent Orange, strategically placed, and the deed is done.

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"Another day in paradise!"