They are what they are....but what is this bass ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAeG5xUc ... re=related

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Being able to play and enjoy music is a gift that's often taken for granted.

Don't leave home without it!

It's a fretless standup bass. My bass player uses something similar. It's a great sounding bass. Custom made and his was pretty expensive. Sounds cool though.

Now this thread seems like it's getting into total unfounded Gibson Les Paul bashing. IMO No, they all don't sound horrible, and no they all aren't built poorly. That's just a ridiculous blanket statement. And as much as I like the Epi Pauls, unless you get into the higher end territory like the Elitist or Tribute they don't IMO sound or play better.
Don't take this the wrong way, but just because you plug a LP into a 212 Deville and didn't like it doesn't mean it sounds bad. Setting the tone controls for any humbucker equipped guitar is different than any single coil guitar. I wouldn't use a bright switch on a Tele, but it's pretty much a must on a Humbucker guitar. Using the second attenuated input changes things too. I can't stand any of the HRD series, but that doesn't mean you can't possibly make them sound good to you.

The comments about Gibson here are what's to be expected. After all it is a Fender site.

Rock On

If you love a Tele, you'll probably never like a Les Paul.

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Life...... It's sexually transmitted and always fatal

I have a 57 CS RI Les Paul that I really like. IMHO, with an MIA Fender Strat or Tele, you get twice the guitar for your money then with Gibson USA. The fact is, Gibson USA is taking shortcuts that effect the tone and playability of their product.
If you are willing to look, good one's exist and can be had. A Les Paul is a different beast and requires different amp settings than a Strat or Tele. The tone pot is your friend on these things.

For all the guys who just don't think the LP sounds good, go try a 56 RI with p90's. Being a Strat guy myself, I think the p90's sound better than the PAF replicas. But not always!

ok folks, its well documented in this thread that pauls are
getting made cheaper and we are being charged more.
so tell us how and what to look for in a quality paul.
at least gibson hasnt went and did what fender has.
fender has like 20 (guessing) different strat types to
choose from. man is it harder than every to buy
a quality strat. theres so dang many to weed through to
get to the good stuff.

Ok WC Jr,
I will attempt to answer your question without pissing any Gibson USA owners off. The ONLY Les Pauls being made that have any structural resemblance to a vintage 50's or 60's LP are the custom shop historic reissues. There have been entire books written on the evolution of LP's, so to avoid writing one myself, here are a few of the things you are looking for.
In a set neck guitar, the neck tenon is very important. The reissues have long tenons extending under the neck pup like they made em back in the day. The USA models have shorter tenons. In fact, the standard and traditional model's have different tenons, both of which are essentially production shortcuts and material management.
The Wood is what you are really paying for with any high end guitar. Lets look at a couple LP facts relating to the weight and quality of the materials.
Traditional: weight relieved mahogony back. (9 holes through the body)
Standard: Chambered mahogony back
CS reissue: Solid mahogony back (chambered models do exist.)
Due to the mahogony used in the CS, a solid LP can weigh as little as 8 or 9 pounds. The chambered or weight relieved USA model usually weigh between 10 and 13 pounds. So the wood Gibson USA uses is so heavy, they have had to create a market niche for chambered solid body guitars in order to veil the cheaper woods they are using.
Admittedly, I don't think a new CS Gibson is a smart investment. Buy one used and save $1500! To sum this up, Gibson CS reissues close the gap between vintage and gibson usa.

wow, i did not know these things.
at what point did they start doing this?
what is the most recent "better built" yrs for gibson?

I am not quite shure when Gibson USA started making these changes. Currently, Gibson USA is listed as the worst company to work for. I think it was a Forbe's article where I read that. If you are really interested in year by year changes, here is a fairly comprehensive link.

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/gibson- ... 101-a.html

Weight was always a big issue with Les Pauls. It's not a a construction saving shortcut or even a cost cutting shortcut to chamber a guitar, it's another process. You take a solid piece of wood and remove it. You still have to pay for the wood before the chambers are made. You won't get a discount for removed wood.
thewood1987, where you getting the weight specs? I'm finding 8-9.5 lbs for non chambered and 7-7.5lbs for weight relieved chambered.
I think if the weight relieved models weighed that much more, someone would have called it out as a fraud. Gibson has used short tenon for ages. Some people can hear a difference, some can't. Kind of like the 3 bolt vs 4 bolt necks of Fenders. Construction wise a long tenon is better, the short tenon still sounds great to me. Epiphone is using "deep set" necks in the Tribute series. I'm not sure if that's the same as long tenon or somewhere in between. Epiphone also chambers some of it's models too. They also cost more. The LP's weren't designed to be rock machines, it just happened. Just remember plugging a Paul into a cheap amp won't make it sound great either. You can plug a cheap guitar into a great amp and it will sound pretty good. Your amp can make or break you.

I'm not a huge Gibson or Fender or any brand fan for that matter. But some of the statements here are just incorrect. Like I've said, I've found plenty of quality issue with Fender as well as many other major brands. It's rare you'll ever just pull a guitar off the wall and it will be magic. My 72 Strat was great off the wall.I played 5 or 6 of the before that one jumped out at me. And yes, $300 was a lot of cash in 72. It would be over $1500 in today's dollars.

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Life...... It's sexually transmitted and always fatal

holy smoke.
man i had no idea. that totally sucks for paul fans doesnt it?
thats some BS right there.
i think i would rather have a guitar thats a touch thinner
than to be chambered like that. im blown away here at this.
thank you for posting this up.

I dont know if its been said .. but maybe its all in the neck profile

Gibson les paul standard = fatter neck ( asymetrical )
Gibson les paul custom and classic = slim tapered neck

its the opposite on epiphone .

epiphone les paul standard = slim tapered neck
epiphone les paul custom = fatter 59 neck .. i think

same for the gibson les paul studio and les paul jr = 50s neck profile ( big neck )

i cant tell you im 100 % about my statement but you most probably like the slim tapered neck so thats why the epiphone les paul standard seem to have a better feel than the gibson les paul standard .

thank you to epiphone to write almost nothing on their guitar and no detailed spec list .



in the end , the neck profile makes all the difference i would never buy a JR or a Studio cause i dont like big neck ...

everytime i see 50s neck profile or 59 neck profile on a gibson or epiphone ... i just passed . the slim tapred is the only one i like . and good thing its on the epi les paul standard .. i can have the neck profile for a low cost .


*** im very open to any mistake or correction i might have made ( i dont have detailed spec sheet ) .. im not a gibson specialist .. but i know how you feel about the Epiphone standard feeling better than Gibson les paul standard .

63 Supro,
A 7 to 7.5 pound les paul will usually only be achievable with a chambered historic. There are always exceptions, and unfortunately, the good examples of each brand are harder to find then bad examples. My point is and was this, you have to spend 3x the money of an MIA Strat in Gibson land to get an equivalent guitar. A real strat has a 4 bolt neck. A real les paul has a long tenon. If you want Gibson USA's feable attempt at a real les paul, there is nothing wrong with that. I played guitar for over 10 years before I could even afford one!
Back to the weight issue, the weight varies from guitar to guitar regardless of the manufacturer. The fact that Gibson usa does NOT offer a non chambered standard says a lot if you are listening. They are so financially $@! over tea kettle that they can't afford to build you a guitar that is non chambered and under 10 pounds. If they had pulled this stuff in the 50's, they would'nt be around today. The company survives by appealing to the uneducated enthusiasts. What educated person would spend $2500 on an MIA Fender?
Like I said before, I don't want to start a pissing contest between myself and all the Gibby USA owners. I have owned multiple les pauls, and was merely trying to share what my experiance has taught me.

I agree with the other poster... Any les paul custom or made in the custom shop... Buy it used and you won't have to sell your first born....
examples:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Gibson-Les-Paul-Cus ... 3f00a9c8b5

Wow I really like this one...
http://cgi.ebay.com/Gibson-Custom-Shop- ... 1c1364086c

http://cgi.ebay.com/2006-GIBSON-CUSTOM- ... 2a07684855

http://cgi.ebay.com/Gibson-Les-Paul-57- ... 2eade4820e

These are my favorite guitars hands down... but keep in mind, my first "real" guitar I bought when I was 17 (1985) and it was a 73 les paul custom... So, there is some sentimental value for me... Its ashame the good les pauls are so out of reach to the common folk nowadays...

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In Reference to Blues Legend RL Burnside:
After a heart attack in 2001, Burnside's doctor advised him to stop drinking; Burnside did, but he reported that change left him unable to play.

The link is interesting, but the op doesn't state if those guitars are even Gibson or where he acquired the photos. I take it for what it's worth.

Actually not all Paul's are chambered. Some people really like them chambered or weight relieved, and seem to think it actually adds a little liveliness to the tone. Just like Fender has 4 zillion different Strat models, Gibson has some different LP's. It's not a scam. They don't try to hide the weight relief. Players asked for a lighter version. Be sure it's the model you want. Thing is, you go out and try one, if you like it, great, buy it and enjoy it. Look it over really well and put it through its paces. It amazes me how many people buy gear after only spending 10 minutes with it then whine about it's not this or that. Take your time with any piece of gear.

If you've ever played a solid Les Paul, you wouldn't want to be standing with it for 3 sets, I'll tell you what, that thing will total your shoulder out.

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Life...... It's sexually transmitted and always fatal

Testify, Brutha!

After some 30+ years of playing a Les Paul exclusively, I came back to the Strat after health problems dictated a change to a lighter instrument. I still play a LP periodically but I can no longer shoulder one for more than one or two sets per evening.

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY

I. WANT. A. LES. PAUL.

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"being a rock star is the intersection of who you are, and who you want to be." -Slash