Is economy getting better or worst?

Solid Body Love Songs · **Posted:** Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:01 am

CV, you have once again made clear that this is the greatest of all countries on the planet and those who would undermine it will surely burn in a place were I will make certain that the fire is hot. Thank you CV.

bill948 · **Posted:** Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:04 am

Solid Body Love Songs wrote:

CV, you have once again made clear that this is the greatest of all countries on the planet and those who would undermine it will surely burn in a place were I will make certain that the fire is hot. Thank you CV.

Thats a big 10-4!

belly65 · **Joined:** Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:38 am **Posts:** 108

cvilleira wrote:

63supro wrote:

Do you really believe the rich pay taxes? They don't. That's why they remain rich.

And no it hasn't always been a Christian nation. "One Nation Under God" wasn't in the original Pledge of Alligence. The pledge was written in 1892 by the socialist Francis Bellamy. Here's a brief history http://www.slate.com/id/2067499/

I do agree everything's huge mess. I feel that corporations are just using regulating to move jobs to other countries just to exploit slave labor and fatten their own wallets. They don't create jobs here anymore. It's a joke.

I also find it funny that everyone thinks this whole mess could be fixed in a short time and they believed the hype one man was spouting and voted him our president. McCain wouldn't have been able to fix it either. You would think they would all work together collectively for the good of the nation instead of the us vs. them attitude that's going on now.
It makes me sick.

I met McCain on a grip and grin photo shoot while he was visiting a local large business looking for campaign contributions and he was pretty clueless as to what the average working man was going through. They threw me out in the hallway while they had a closed door meeting. Go figure. I'm sure all politicians do the same thing. The middle class and small business owner gets none of the tax breaks because we can't afford to make huge campaign contributions.

I'm a seriously fiscally conservative voter. I can't wait to see what happens next and how the "sheeple" vote. Shame on anyone who pulls one party lever in the voting booth or worse yet, doesn't vote at all. I've voted across all party lines and always will vote for the person I feel will do the best job regardless of party affiliation.

\Well lets see in 2007 the top %1 percent of AGI earners paid a total of %40.42 of the total income tax collected. The top %10 adjutsed gross income people paid %71.22 of the income tax collected. People earning $32,679. per year which is the bottom %50 made paid %2.89 of the total income tax collected. These are the figures from the IRS

And yes it has always been a Christian Nation!!!!
And the pledge and One Nation under God was added, But the Declaration said.

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation"

The first Virgina charter before the U.S.

We, greatly commending, and graciously accepting of, their Desires for the Furtherance of so noble a Work, which may, by the Providence of Almighty God, hereafter tend to the Glory of his Divine Majesty, in propagating of Christian Religion to such People, as yet live in Darkness and miserable Ignorance of the true Knowledge and Worship of God, and may in time bring the Infidels and Savages, living in those parts, to human Civility, and to a settled and quiet Government: DO, by these our Letters Patents, graciously accept of, and agree to, their humble and well-intended Desires.

And from someone who lived close to where I am right now and his family still lives there signer of the Declaration Charles Carrol said.

Charles Carroll

" Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure...are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

The Liberty Bell

"Proclaim Liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof," from Leviticus 25:10

President Abraham Lincoln Gettysburg Address

"that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain--that this Nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom--and that Government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth

Now economy.
Companies need to bring back manufacturing and the goverment needs to make them want to. The best and only way is incentives we have put ourselfs out of that type of employment because of pure cost of it. I don't have the answers but putting one class against the other does not help. When its cheaper to make a TV in China then ship it around the world then to make it here and ship accross the state something is wrong. Who knows how to fix that?

No we are not officially a Christian nation.

You left out the text of the only document that really matters the U.S. Constitution and the First Amendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to
petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Notice it says congress shall make NO LAW RESPECTING AN ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION...This prohibits the government from passing laws that would establish the United States as a Christian nation.

The amendment further says OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF...this prohibits the government from interfering with citizens choice of and practicing any religion whether it is Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Taoism, or Satanism.

These two parts of the first amendment seem to clearly be contrary to your argument that the U.S. is a Christian nation.

The U.S. Constitution is the supreme law of the land and it has clearly spoken that we are not a Christian nation.

If you want to claim that by Christian nation you mean that the majority of the people living in the U.S. at the time of the founding of the nation believed in some form of Christianity...I would agree with that...but the U.S. is not a Christian Nation and the words of the First Amendment confirm that.

Retroverbial · **Posted:** Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:42 pm

belly65 wrote:

No we are not officially a Christian nation.

You left out the text of the only document that really matters the U.S. Constitution and the First Amendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to
petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Notice it says congress shall make NO LAW RESPECTING AN ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION...This prohibits the government from passing laws that would establish the United States as a Christian nation.

The amendment further says OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF...this prohibits the government from interfering with citizens choice of and practicing any religion whether it is Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Taoism, or Satanism.

These two parts of the first amendment seem to clearly be contrary to your argument that the U.S. is a Christian nation.

The U.S. Constitution is the supreme law of the land and it has clearly spoken that we are not a Christian nation.

If you want to claim that by Christian nation you mean that the majority of the people living in the U.S. at the time of the founding of the nation believed in some form of Christianity...I would agree with that...but the U.S. is not a Christian Nation and the words of the First Amendment confirm that.

Such pontification has dick to do with the state of the US economy or offering a solution to remedy its effects on the citizenry at large.

Arjay

inbalance99 · **Posted:** Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:00 pm

belly was simply responding to previous posts, and made a very good point.

Economic threads always end up in political and religious discussions.

Back to topic, has anyone had the courage to make any investments over the last year in real estate, stocks, bonds or the courage to change careers because of the writing on the wall?

63supro · **Joined:** Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:19 pm **Posts:** 8827

belly65 wrote:

cvilleira wrote:

63supro wrote:

Do you really believe the rich pay taxes? They don't. That's why they remain rich.

And no it hasn't always been a Christian nation. "One Nation Under God" wasn't in the original Pledge of Alligence. The pledge was written in 1892 by the socialist Francis Bellamy. Here's a brief history http://www.slate.com/id/2067499/

I do agree everything's huge mess. I feel that corporations are just using regulating to move jobs to other countries just to exploit slave labor and fatten their own wallets. They don't create jobs here anymore. It's a joke.

I also find it funny that everyone thinks this whole mess could be fixed in a short time and they believed the hype one man was spouting and voted him our president. McCain wouldn't have been able to fix it either. You would think they would all work together collectively for the good of the nation instead of the us vs. them attitude that's going on now.
It makes me sick.

I met McCain on a grip and grin photo shoot while he was visiting a local large business looking for campaign contributions and he was pretty clueless as to what the average working man was going through. They threw me out in the hallway while they had a closed door meeting. Go figure. I'm sure all politicians do the same thing. The middle class and small business owner gets none of the tax breaks because we can't afford to make huge campaign contributions.

I'm a seriously fiscally conservative voter. I can't wait to see what happens next and how the "sheeple" vote. Shame on anyone who pulls one party lever in the voting booth or worse yet, doesn't vote at all. I've voted across all party lines and always will vote for the person I feel will do the best job regardless of party affiliation.

\Well lets see in 2007 the top %1 percent of AGI earners paid a total of %40.42 of the total income tax collected. The top %10 adjutsed gross income people paid %71.22 of the income tax collected. People earning $32,679. per year which is the bottom %50 made paid %2.89 of the total income tax collected. These are the figures from the IRS

And yes it has always been a Christian Nation!!!!
And the pledge and One Nation under God was added, But the Declaration said.

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation"

The first Virgina charter before the U.S.

We, greatly commending, and graciously accepting of, their Desires for the Furtherance of so noble a Work, which may, by the Providence of Almighty God, hereafter tend to the Glory of his Divine Majesty, in propagating of Christian Religion to such People, as yet live in Darkness and miserable Ignorance of the true Knowledge and Worship of God, and may in time bring the Infidels and Savages, living in those parts, to human Civility, and to a settled and quiet Government: DO, by these our Letters Patents, graciously accept of, and agree to, their humble and well-intended Desires.

And from someone who lived close to where I am right now and his family still lives there signer of the Declaration Charles Carrol said.

Charles Carroll

" Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure...are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

The Liberty Bell

"Proclaim Liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof," from Leviticus 25:10

President Abraham Lincoln Gettysburg Address

"that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain--that this Nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom--and that Government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth

Now economy.
Companies need to bring back manufacturing and the goverment needs to make them want to. The best and only way is incentives we have put ourselfs out of that type of employment because of pure cost of it. I don't have the answers but putting one class against the other does not help. When its cheaper to make a TV in China then ship it around the world then to make it here and ship accross the state something is wrong. Who knows how to fix that?

No we are not officially a Christian nation.

You left out the text of the only document that really matters the U.S. Constitution and the First Amendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to
petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Notice it says congress shall make NO LAW RESPECTING AN ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION...This prohibits the government from passing laws that would establish the United States as a Christian nation.

The amendment further says OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF...this prohibits the government from interfering with citizens choice of and practicing any religion whether it is Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Taoism, or Satanism.

These two parts of the first amendment seem to clearly be contrary to your argument that the U.S. is a Christian nation.

The U.S. Constitution is the supreme law of the land and it has clearly spoken that we are not a Christian nation.

If you want to claim that by Christian nation you mean that the majority of the people living in the U.S. at the time of the founding of the nation believed in some form of Christianity...I would agree with that...but the U.S. is not a Christian Nation and the words of the First Amendment confirm that.

Exactly! There is a difference, and religion and politics should be kept separate. If the the religious right and other religious organizations want in, let them pay their fair share of taxes. I don't need their brand of morality shoved down my throat.
Also, some of the tax figures need to be adjusted. As a small business owner, the Fed, State and Local government tax the crap out of me. Not to mention my health care costs. That were pretty bad before Obama and are getting worse because of the health care situation. Big business and the rich show large tax contributions, but there are so many loopholes and givebacks so they don't pay much of it it's ridiculous. I personally know owners of big companies that pay less taxes than me. They have accountants that can work the system for them.

They need to do away with business taxes period and have some sort of flat tax with no deductions and cut all the freaking spending.

The thing is I don't need is the Right Wing Conservative Movement or the Liberal Democrats telling me what's right for me. Most of all I don't need a bunch of sneaky scumbags teaching me or my family morals. That's my job.
I need them to stay out of my life as much as possible and so far none have.

And Arjay's right, none of this has dick to do with the economy or how to fix it. Man, I hate political discussions. I say fire them all and give third party candidates a chance. :wink:

I'll just end by agreeing to disagree.

Retroverbial · **Posted:** Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:19 pm

inbalance99 wrote:

Back to topic, has anyone had the courage to make any investments over the last year in real estate, stocks, bonds or the courage to change careers because of the writing on the wall?

I reconfigured my portfolio some three years ago into a more defensive posture, with the primary objective being perservation-of-capital.

I dumped the stocks, the bonds, and the mutuals for cash instruments and precious metals exclusively.

For 2010 YTD my investments are up some 24% over last year.

Arjay

cvilleira · **Posted:** Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:24 pm

belly65 wrote:

cvilleira wrote:

63supro wrote:

Do you really believe the rich pay taxes? They don't. That's why they remain rich.

And no it hasn't always been a Christian nation. "One Nation Under God" wasn't in the original Pledge of Alligence. The pledge was written in 1892 by the socialist Francis Bellamy. Here's a brief history http://www.slate.com/id/2067499/

I do agree everything's huge mess. I feel that corporations are just using regulating to move jobs to other countries just to exploit slave labor and fatten their own wallets. They don't create jobs here anymore. It's a joke.

I also find it funny that everyone thinks this whole mess could be fixed in a short time and they believed the hype one man was spouting and voted him our president. McCain wouldn't have been able to fix it either. You would think they would all work together collectively for the good of the nation instead of the us vs. them attitude that's going on now.
It makes me sick.

I met McCain on a grip and grin photo shoot while he was visiting a local large business looking for campaign contributions and he was pretty clueless as to what the average working man was going through. They threw me out in the hallway while they had a closed door meeting. Go figure. I'm sure all politicians do the same thing. The middle class and small business owner gets none of the tax breaks because we can't afford to make huge campaign contributions.

I'm a seriously fiscally conservative voter. I can't wait to see what happens next and how the "sheeple" vote. Shame on anyone who pulls one party lever in the voting booth or worse yet, doesn't vote at all. I've voted across all party lines and always will vote for the person I feel will do the best job regardless of party affiliation.

\Well lets see in 2007 the top %1 percent of AGI earners paid a total of %40.42 of the total income tax collected. The top %10 adjutsed gross income people paid %71.22 of the income tax collected. People earning $32,679. per year which is the bottom %50 made paid %2.89 of the total income tax collected. These are the figures from the IRS

And yes it has always been a Christian Nation!!!!
And the pledge and One Nation under God was added, But the Declaration said.

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation"

The first Virgina charter before the U.S.

We, greatly commending, and graciously accepting of, their Desires for the Furtherance of so noble a Work, which may, by the Providence of Almighty God, hereafter tend to the Glory of his Divine Majesty, in propagating of Christian Religion to such People, as yet live in Darkness and miserable Ignorance of the true Knowledge and Worship of God, and may in time bring the Infidels and Savages, living in those parts, to human Civility, and to a settled and quiet Government: DO, by these our Letters Patents, graciously accept of, and agree to, their humble and well-intended Desires.

And from someone who lived close to where I am right now and his family still lives there signer of the Declaration Charles Carrol said.

Charles Carroll

" Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure...are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

The Liberty Bell

"Proclaim Liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof," from Leviticus 25:10

President Abraham Lincoln Gettysburg Address

"that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain--that this Nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom--and that Government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth

Now economy.
Companies need to bring back manufacturing and the goverment needs to make them want to. The best and only way is incentives we have put ourselfs out of that type of employment because of pure cost of it. I don't have the answers but putting one class against the other does not help. When its cheaper to make a TV in China then ship it around the world then to make it here and ship accross the state something is wrong. Who knows how to fix that?

No we are not officially a Christian nation.

You left out the text of the only document that really matters the U.S. Constitution and the First Amendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to
petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Notice it says congress shall make NO LAW RESPECTING AN ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION...This prohibits the government from passing laws that would establish the United States as a Christian nation.

The amendment further says OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF...this prohibits the government from interfering with citizens choice of and practicing any religion whether it is Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Taoism, or Satanism.

These two parts of the first amendment seem to clearly be contrary to your argument that the U.S. is a Christian nation.

The U.S. Constitution is the supreme law of the land and it has clearly spoken that we are not a Christian nation.

If you want to claim that by Christian nation you mean that the majority of the people living in the U.S. at the time of the founding of the nation believed in some form of Christianity...I would agree with that...but the U.S. is not a Christian Nation and the words of the First Amendment confirm that.

Not one person on this has said it was officially a Christian Nation. Just shown that our for fathers where mainly Christian and it effected there thoughts and ideas of the Nation. The reason I quoted so many.

Don't overlook the statement in my response about the rich paying taxes. These are facts that involve the people who invest in the economy and create the jobs. The bullsh** line they don't pay is believed by so many and it is incorrect. Well lets see in 2007 the top %1 percent of AGI earners paid a total of %40.42 of the total income tax collected. The top %10 adjutsed gross income people paid %71.22 of the income tax collected. People earning $32,679. per year which is the bottom %50 made paid %2.89 of the total income tax collected. These are the figures from the IRS

Maryland was the first state to have a surcharge on Million dollar income. Business owners and others that make that kind of money have been fleeing the state since it passed. Now is shown that politicians trying to pickpocket the rich ended costing the state revenue and jobs because of it.

People need to invest in the country and not be punished for when the benefit from it. Use of class warfare to get elected just makes it worst. People think the rich don't pay taxes when its proven they do IRS number are not lying. The government is not going to create jobs but it can regulate and tax them away.

The government can't tax its way out of debt and the crazy spending in the past years have made things worst not better.

Voodoo Blues · **Joined:** Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:05 am **Posts:** 1333

cvilleira wrote:

And yes it has always been a Christian Nation!!!!

cvilleira wrote:

Not one person on this has said it was officially a Christian Nation.

Can we start arguing about semantics now? :twisted:

cvilleira · **Posted:** Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:49 pm

Retroverbial wrote:

inbalance99 wrote:

Back to topic, has anyone had the courage to make any investments over the last year in real estate, stocks, bonds or the courage to change careers because of the writing on the wall?

I reconfigured my portfolio some three years ago into a more defensive posture, with the primary objective being perservation-of-capital.

I dumped the stocks, the bonds, and the mutuals for cash instruments and precious metals exclusively.

For 2010 YTD my investments are up some 24% over last year.

Arjay

We are about 50/50 stocks mostly in the energy industry and GIF's I am currently one of the millions not employed long term for the first time in 35 years. We just made a short sale offer on another house but have not heard back on it yet We went very low because we are not planing to flip it but to rent the house in hope to market in the future. The owner bought at the high of the bubble and the offer is much lower then what is owed but more realistic to the value minus some for me equity. Have not had any contact since Monday so I am doubting it will be accepted.

Retroverbial · **Posted:** Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:51 pm

It could still happen, CV.

Keep your fingers crossed.

Arjay

63supro · **Joined:** Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:19 pm **Posts:** 8827

Retroverbial wrote:

It could still happen, CV.

Keep your fingers crossed.

Arjay

Seriously, theses are pretty desperate times in the real estate market anything can happen.

belly65 · **Joined:** Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:38 am **Posts:** 108

Okay cv. I will say this to any of the tea party pumpers in this thread...do you really believe any of the tea party candidates or republicans are really the answer to solving our economic problems? The tea party candidates and the majority of the republican party is calling for the continuation of laissez faire deregulationist policies that are the cause of the current economic crisis. Anyone that would vote for a candidate that champions the same policies that caused this mess in the first place needs to have their head examined.

belly65 · **Joined:** Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:38 am **Posts:** 108

Voodoo Blues wrote:

cvilleira wrote:

And yes it has always been a Christian Nation!!!!

cvilleira wrote:

Not one person on this has said it was officially a Christian Nation.

Can we start arguing about semantics now? :twisted:

Amazing............. :lol:

Retroverbial · **Posted:** Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:59 pm

belly65 wrote:

I will say this to any of the tea party pumpers in this thread...do you really believe any of the tea party candidates or republicans are really the answer to solving our economic problems?

Absolutely not!

What this nation clearly needs is more compassion fascists, more academic dilletantes, and more socio-political utopians -- none of which have ever had to support their own existences or assume responsibility for anything that they do.

Ayup......ABSOLUTELY.

Enjoy the kool-aid!

Arjay

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