I agree they are making some bloody expensive guitars atm i really love the Les Pauls but cant afford one atm becasue they are so expensive and its as if the only people who should have the darn things are rich buggers that in there room with them on there laps or the proffesional gigging Artist... its unfair.

Also thats not a dig at roomies im just saying Gibson is pretty much for the fortunate few.

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A painter paints pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence. ~Leopold Stokowski~

The biggest problem with Gibson is there CEO Justin Juszkiewicz! This guy is driving the company into the ground and would do the music world a great favor and make himself a fortune if he just sold out. Who would of ever thought Gibson would become the butt of jokes on there quality. Everyone knows guitar magazine reviews go very easy when testing a model yet whenever they do a Gibson guitar the same knocks are still there, in fact it is at a point where they are expected and a surprise if they are not there. I ay least give them much more credit than Fender for trying to launch something new, but after about 7 disasters in a row it is time to go to plan B or atleast work with different people to develop a guitar. If I go to look at something with humbuckers I only have to look at the EBMM page as all there guitars are top shelf ,innovative and like Fender offer super quality without having to take out a second mortgage.

Ford-Chevy- Chevy-Dodge-Dodge-Ford
Drums keep pounding rhythm to the brain!! and the debate goes on.
Thank goodness for openmindedness and progressive thinking ..over at Gibson the same goes on there about Fender...lol and the junk they make. I think both companys have their setbacks and their high points. They both have made guitar
history and they both have made junk! Hopefully in the future along with the the somewhat trying economic times both companys remain the great icons they have both become! and we as customers continue to have the great choices of instruments they make. I personally don't limit my options when it comes to which truck I drive or the guitars I play... and btw I'am not one of those rich roomie guys. Just fortunate I guess!!

Everything you said Fender gives Gibson does the same. Custom shops , Vintage, Road worns, Standards, Ect. Ect.
And you say forget the Dusk Tiger and the Robot Gibbys , don't forget Fender give us the VG and more signature rigs then you can shake a stick at.

And know I have not bought a Gibson Amp in a long long time as well as a Fender. Budda and Roland here.

Just kind of a ridiculous statement to say the Demise Of The Les Paul!!!!

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson

It is strange that they can vary so much in this day and age when Gibson puts them through the PLEK process. Those plek machines don't fool around. It cost a few hundred dollars to put a Fender though one.

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson

+1 Fender isn't annihilating anyone. Fender just has 200 versions of the same thing. Whenever they venture outside that box, the gear is just discontinued in a year or two, sometimes a little longer, but how many versions of a Strat are really needed?

Most of these discussions seem like sour grapes to me anyway. I like them all, Fender, Gibson, Dano, Supro, Reverend guitars are great some are some of the Ibanez and Gretsch. I even play cigar box guitars. If you don't venture outside the box you'll never grow as a musician. YMMV

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Life...... It's sexually transmitted and always fatal

as in....6 of them @ $250000.00 and each guitar takes 20 mins

Nice pic whirlgig!!!!
And 63supro well put!!!!

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson

Ill admit that i dont have too much knowledge on gibson's current quality issues apart from and overall decline, but i wonder if this "era" will be known as gibsons equivalent to fenders CBS era?

yes they are.

well probably not the company per se, but it's current holder(s). but it has to do with the way the company is run, and its crushing debt load, not with the product. Adding to the pending investigations on collusion and price fixing, the investigation into illegal woods, the pressure from creditors is now this little gem:
http://www.nashvillepost.com/news/2010/ ... ax_trouble
ad this to their other issues, and I think we aren't far from seeing Gibbo change hands again. it has too much valuable intellectual property to outright fold, but I wouldn't be surprised to see some forced restructuring.

Oh and a little more fuel for the fire
http://www.gear-vault.com/gibson-melvyn-franks-59-lp/

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I'm not an expert, but I play one on the internet.

And yes, Fender makes the same thing with 2,000 variations. But we tend to own multiple Fenders![/quote]

Not me. I don't own more than one model of any guitar.

Fenders QC ain't nothing to write home about either. To be honest, I'm not seeing all the quality problems being discussed. I might find a sharp fret end from time to time on the Gibbys, but I find fret sprout on the Road Worn's and other quality issues with fit and finish on Fender guitars and a lot of the things I see on the amps leaves a lot to be desired like loose grill cloths, crooked covering work, and if you read the threads here the quality record isn't that great on the Hot Rod and VM series amps either.
Fender has it's share of high priced guitars too. Leo designed his guitars to be affordable, working peoples guitars. That's why they bolt together. Gibson's don't. Fenders pups are mounted to the scratch plate and the whole assembly is screwed in place. Gibson's have neck and body binding Fender doesn't and Gibson is made in the USA it's the only place they're made, Fender's guitars and amps are made in the USA, Mexico, China etc.

Both companies have their fair share of problems and loser guitars but neither is going anywhere.

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Life...... It's sexually transmitted and always fatal

Both companies produced designs in the 50's and 60's that were so wonderful that the truth is there isnt much more that can be done to improve them. Some designs are so good they withstand the test of time. The strats and teles as well as LP's, SG's, explorers, V's, 335's etc are so great even every other company tries to imitate them. Both companies try to come out with some cheesy new things every now and then but their standard designs will always be more popular. They are just that good.

I love my American Standard strat more then any other item I own but I love my Gibson standard SG too. I like Les Pauls too and will have one someday I hope. I do appreciate the fact that if you buy a Gibson (any Gibson) you know it is made in the USA and not some third world sweat shop and that shows in the fit and finish on their instruments.

I am thankful that we are fortunate enough to be able to get our hands on fine guitars from both great companies.

Actually since that Gibby was owned first by Peter Green, then by Gary Moore, it would be like releasing a copy of Blackie as 'The Hard Rock Cafe' model, and not mentioning Clapton at all.

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I'm not an expert, but I play one on the internet.

Mike Eldred has made a few hints that Fender wont use a plek machine, for some reason. Both their CS and Productionline guitars are fretted and dressed by hand.

I must say I was incredibly impressed with my Custom Classic's fretwork. Every fret a perfect half circle with no plateau anywhere on any of the frettops. I've never seen that before on anything, Anderson, PensaSuhr, PRS or anyone else. I was utterly amazed that a perfectly level set of fret tops could be perfectly crowned and maintain that level line. So much so that I threw away my half round file and switched to quater round, just so I could follow it round over the fret tops. In about another 20 years I may actualy get good enough to get somewhere near that quality.


As far as Fender making 2000 models of the same thing, that shows where they just about own everyone else in the market. Marketability. You could sell those guitars to anyone. As I said before (plenty of times) Gibson have always marketed themselves as a traditionalist company that are (supposedly) a cut above the rest. Now they want to shift a load of junk, it's come back to bite their arse. The fact is that gibsons acoustic instruments are nothing special at all. The J200 for instance isn't anything to write home about. It's just been out for ages. I was in a studio 2 weeks ago. The guy their had 2 Martins that frankly left any gibson acoustic I've ever played. One of them was from the Martin Mexico plant, it was lazer cut and never handled by a human during production. £500 for that, yep I'd buy it every day of the week if I could.

I'm sorry but the VG strat is a superb guitar. Everyone should go play one. They dont cost a stupid amount of money either. I dont think they didnt sell well, I keep bumping into them in the most unlikely of places. I think Fender like to perpetuate a sense of desirability in some of their instruments by withdrawing them.

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No no and no

Back from Disney...Ceri, the two Vintage Sunburst Gibsons are CS-336, predecessor to the 339. Semi-hollow, normally coming with Gibson 57 Classic pickups. Mike's is stock, mine came with WCRs (I think) installed by the previous owner and I have the original 57s also. Great guitars; sound of a 335 and the size of an LP.

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Current Gear: Ron Kirn Barnbuster Tele,
Marshall: 1971 SuperLead 100>1997 1960-TV, bunch of pedals
and a 1987 Porsche 911 Carrera coupe named Veronica