As a gigging musician around Nashville in times past,I would much rather do that than all the studio work I've watched my friends do.
I don't have all the chops to do studio work and play whatever comes through the door,and wouldn't even try.
What I would have really loved to have been is a standout blues guitarist...a musician's musician...the one the good guys wanted to see.
A friend of mine who was around Muscle Shoals for awhile said that when Duane Allman was doing studio work,there was always guys hanging around because they knew that at sometime Duane was going to rip an unbelievable solo,it never failed.
But he grew tired of session work and we know the rest of the story now.
Best of both worlds.

i keep hearing this. is this out on dvd? it was shown in thatres for a short time, then disappeared.

A friend of mine had a copy. I don't know where he got it. Maybe he downloaded it somewhere. Wish I had a copy it was a great film.
Here's the website
http://www.wreckingcrewfilm.com/

Pardon me but, Celebrity Status/Rock Star is about marketing and pushing a product upon the consumer, wether that be the culinary field, music, fine arts, acting...or whatever, it may or may not reflect actual ability.
Would you say that there is no musical talent in Anne Sophie Mutter, or Hillary Hahn, or Yo-Yo Ma or Peppino D'agostino, Laurence Juber, Pat Metheny, Robert Cray, Larry Carlton, or just pick someone else.. Yet all the above are well renowned.
Much of what is advertised is meant to "SELL". It is for us to discern wether it meets our own personal criteria of, is it music or rubbish. ?

" A pretty package doesn't hide the smell once opened."

I disagree about studio versus gigging, one real one fake. Many excellent musicians do both and I would aspire to be succesful in either mode.
As for the KABUKI style, well we all were/ are young once and No... I don't need panned in close ups of Kiss or the Stones.

Enjoy it for what it is, you can always turn off the I-Pod or walk out...

Pardon me but, Celebrity Status/Rock Star is about marketing and pushing a product upon the consumer, wether that be the culinary field, music, fine arts, acting...or whatever, it may or may not reflect actual ability.
Would you say that there is no musical talent in Anne Sophie Mutter, or Hillary Hahn, or Yo-Yo Ma or Peppino D'agostino, Laurence Juber, Pat Metheny, Robert Cray, Larry Carlton, or just pick someone else.. Yet all the above are well renowned.
Much of what is advertised is meant to "SELL". It is for us to discern wether it meets our own personal criteria of, is it music or rubbish. ?

" A pretty package doesn't hide the smell once opened."

I disagree about studio versus gigging, one real one fake. Many excellent musicians do both and I would aspire to be succesful in either mode.
As for the KABUKI style, well we all were/ are young once and No... I don't need panned in close ups of Kiss or the Stones.

Enjoy it for what it is, you can always turn off the I-Pod or walk out...

Goranm

Looking back on that post I'm really sorry about my choice of wording. It could have been far better.

You sir also make a superbly valid point about studio musicians being a different breed. Your absolutely right. I hate recording, I despise everything about it. How you have no control and are constantly being told what to do, or that a take wasnt good enough. Then theres the way all your sound is changed to sound right on record.

I fully see your point cos I find nothing more disheartening or tiring than studio work.

What I would say is theres a distinct difference between a studio musician who is actively involved in the whole recording process. Who is right into the whole process from start to finish.

Those people are very different from the studio/session player who rocks up plays whats put infront of him and goes home. I do see that as being educated, I dont see it being talented. It's not like their creating something. Now I know that people rarely fit into one pigeonhole alone. I hate recording but theres piles of MP3's on a harddrive of my ideas. I spend time every week recording my playing and listening back for the good stuff, or something that inspires me, or could be used in something. I just cant find the energy to get interested in mic placement and reverb type and all that stuff.


Its the whole difference between performer, artist and musician. Bruce Springsteen would never get a job playing for the London Symphony Orchestra. He's far more entertaining to go and see play though. You could argue in his case that he is more creative, but you'd be on shakey ground. Because aside from the orchestra being a covers band, you dont see what they all do individualy. Thats the grey area where the two meet.

I dont believe one type of musician is more talented or valuable than another. I'd say their both different sides of the same coin.

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No no and no

Very good and interesting post. First let me say that being a studio musician today does not hold the same weight it did years ago before Pro Tools. If you take the a fore mentioned wrecking crew, the cats that played on all the Motown recordings or the house band for Stacks to name a few you are dealing with some seriously talented players. Tommy Tedesco and Larry Carlton in the 70s and then Steve Lukather in the 80s to name a few were all monster players who created some of the greatest guitar parts with little credit. It does take a special player to just be able to walk in and lay down a Funk, Disco, Jazz, Country, Slide, Blues or rock track on the fly. But to be honest that scene is just about dead outside of Nashville.

On the other hand to be able to blow away 20,000 people on a nightly basis is just as impressive. I dont get what distortion has to do with anything as Vai, Satch, Yngwie, Vanhalen and Beck all use it and all are some of the greatest players on the planet. Yet Tommy Emmanual or the late Michael Hedges could blow your mind the same way with just an acoustic guitar. Some people just feed off a crowd and live to perform while others love to play but can do without the stage hassle. If I had to call it though back in the day you had a much better shot of being in a hit band than a top session player.

Studio and stage are very different animals. i have known many talented players who were better suited for either one or the other, but very few who could excel at both.(I suck at both as do the vast majority of players, frankly.)

Often touring bands have trouble dialing in their sound quickly and consistently in the studio. Time is money, so that's usually where studio musicians come in. that and studio guys are often ghost players for guys who can't cut it. as Gene Simmons said there's a lot of guys making a lot of money that can barely get by musically. however that same studio musician may not have stage presence, so he may be equally out of sorts on stage.

Very very few players shine at both aspects of the music business.

A lot of music is and always has been packaging an image. just as many horrible recordings get released as horrible live acts, can't really single either group out there.


"The music business would be a good thing, except that it's dominated by drug addicts and businessmen"--Tom Sholtz (Boston)

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I'm not an expert, but I play one on the internet.

Aint that the truth. I still get nightmares about my first recording experience. I demanded I play using my usual sound. On playback it was horrible, £1000 worth of amp sounding like a fuzzbox into a hifi. So after I'd wasted that day We had to re-record everything.
In the end I said to the engineer "you set the sound, I dunno what I'm doing".
I couldnt get on with that, so I ended up playing in the control room and having the amp mic'd in a booth.
Since then I've tried all sorts of things. I think the best was to split the guitar signal. One side going to my amp, set as I liked. The other side going straight to the board then re-amped through the studio's POD. The real beauty of that was that you can layer amp sounds.

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No no and no

I was wondering what brought this mild confusion about my allegedly low opinion about gigging musicians and players. And I have come to the conclusion- it's the title, the name of the thread! So, I believe I owe you guys an apology! I'm sorry if I have offended anybody! And an explanation.
"Studio musicians vs Gigging musicians/Real talent vs Fake one"

Maybe I could have come up with a better name for this thread, I don't know. I thought it was an appropriate solution since they are actually two topics on one thread! Not one topic!
This symbol "/" was meant to distinguish the topics apart. I was kind of forced to use it because there simply was no more room for any additional letter(s) to put in.
What I'm trying to say is that "Real talent vs Fake one" DOES NOT apply to, and has nothing to do with, "Studio musicians vs Gigging musicians"!
It all started with the studio vs gigging, but kind of expanded into this fake talented guys stealing off everything from real players thing. So, it's actually two topics, that I decided to put into one thread because I think it is very important to talk about it (both topics). And as Nikininja said, it is something very important to most of us.
My apology once more!

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"If you're on a path that's beaten, it's not your path." Joseph Campbell

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me."

"All that is impossible remains to be achieved."
Jules Verne

www.stratcollector.com

I really did not want to enter this conversation, so here is my first mistake on this thread, Goranm you appear to be a fairly knowledgeable person although your age shows with this; "Real talent vs Fake one" , I don't believe that you can fake talent, one has talent or one doesn't have talent it is very simple, your opinions are just that, they belong to you, and as you age you will learn that some of the opinions that you may think are valid are BS, just chill Bro, no one is going to steal your spot light, have faith be strong and you will be fine, oh yeah and don't judge a book by it's cover and don't jump to conclusions and blah blah blah

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you can save the world with your guitar one love song at a time it's just better, more fun, easier with a fender solid body electric guitar or electric bass guitar.

Hi Solid! Once more, I need to explain certain things.
"Real talent vs Fake one" has nothing to do with me personally! Of course I've had certain experiences with that sort of thing, but that does not irritate me anymore. It used to. I only got into this type of dispute a couple of days ago with a friend. And after thinking about it, I wished to hear your opinions on this topic. From you, forum members. Nothing more, nothing less. It's actually very interesting to me that musicians worldwide have this very dispute all the time. And that made me post here, and see what you from all parts of the world think about it.
Don't look at this whole thread as my personal dissatisfaction because it's not. I'm just curious about this whole thing. Nothing more. And I gave you my experience with it to make you a bit more open to share your own thoughts and experiences about it. That's all.

It's not about me at all! It's about the phenomenon in general. That's what I'm interested in. Very interesting topic I'd say.

_________________
"If you're on a path that's beaten, it's not your path." Joseph Campbell

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me."

"All that is impossible remains to be achieved."
Jules Verne

www.stratcollector.com

Look at this new thread "Rock isn't music?". You see what I'm curious about? It happens all the time. Every now and then some similar thread appears. So, why not talk about it openly? And maybe help those who have hard times in arguing about it all the time. It's hard to put up with that sort of things when you're a kid. So, talk about it. It can only make good!

_________________
"If you're on a path that's beaten, it's not your path." Joseph Campbell

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me."

"All that is impossible remains to be achieved."
Jules Verne

www.stratcollector.com

Goranm

I completely understand what your saying mate. You want to discuss these things in a adult manner, without anyone getting angry. You want to find facts rather than opinions.
Hence the apology about how my first reply was written, it was unnecessarily badly worded. I must have been in a lull.

Unfortunately this is a public forum you cant control who responds or their mentality. So certain topics cause more grief than disscussion. Your always going to get someone who thinks a difference of opinion is the same as becoming mortal enemies. Thankfully that hasn't happened on this thread.

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No no and no

Goranm, you are golden Bro, the music theory posts by you and really all of your posts are understandable and presented well, there are a lot of Bros here that are digging that and it is very cool, no explanation needed, you won't find many fakers or posers, for that matter, here, any that come around don't last very long as you can tell now that you've been around for awhile, the Bros here don't let much slip by, as I wrote "I don't believe that you can fake talent, one has talent or one doesn't have talent it is very simple". You were curious about something and did the exact right thing by asking because that is the best way to get an answer, when I asked you to chill that means don't worry, whom ever you talk with outside of this Forum is, remember, outside of this Forum, when you are here all of your questions will be answered eventually, no strings attached (was that a pun?) no judgemental stuff just chillin' in the Lounge.

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you can save the world with your guitar one love song at a time it's just better, more fun, easier with a fender solid body electric guitar or electric bass guitar.