I don't think I have ever wanted to be a gigging musician. Don't know why.
I've never really wanted to be a rock star. Maybe because I am not so into rock 'n' roll stuff at all. I can listen to it, it's fun to play rock, but man it gets boring after awhile. And I don't enjoy a lot of distorted sounds anyway. So...
I'm sitting here listening to Acoustic Alchemy (if you're not familiar with the band, check them out!) and telling myself that's the music I enjoy most. I like blues too. I've got a lot of classical music influences in me, jazz too, I've got my feet into rockabilly and some light and mild country stuff, classic rock, I'm all into movie soundtracks... but I am not very satisfied musically unless I play my own compositions. My own riffs, you know just the very thing that comes out of you.
It's easy for me to improvise a song, to make arrangements, to turn things up a bit, not play a song one way all the time.
I am 100% studio musician type of guy! I don't enjoy going on the road, playing in a different town or bar every night. It's too demanding for me.
I don't want to be jumping around the stage with my guitar and making faces, etc. I also play piano/keyboards and bass, so I don't understand that "I'm a guitar player, a star" thing. No disrespect (I'm a guitar player like you), but guitar players usually steal shows from the band. Because they can be the loudest ones in the band. Especially younger players.
I'm 25 myself, and I don't understand all that young players trying to impress everybody. The worst thing for me is that you indeed can impress most of the audience simply by turning distortion full up, play three notes and bend a tremolo! And you can be standing there, playing the heck out of guitar, play jazz, or an acoustic guitar and nobody will even look at you unless you plug into a 1000 watt Marshall and break all the windows. Even if you can't really play. And I find most of those type (showing off type) of players can't even play. Wow! What the hell is wrong with today's taste in music!?
What made me think about this is that I often hear other musicians (guitarists in 99% of the cases) say that stage performance is very important too. I guess that applies to jumping around, yelling, turning your guitar around your shoulders... To me, the only thing that really matters is music. The composition, the song you play. Not the show, stage lights... But, I admit it sometimes makes certain contributions to the whole event (ala Pink Floyd). But studio work! That's a whole another story for me! I love it! I enjoy playing with other studio musicians. It's easy in a way. Of course it's nice to be in front of an audience, but it depends what music you play. And want to play. As a studio musician, you can't really choose what you play. But, that Acoustic Alchemy music, Spyro Gyra and so forth is the music I want to be touring! If I played that, I wouldn't mind travelling! That's the music I want to share with people. Like Toto! Studio musicians in the finest possible way! Doing what they want(ed) to do.

My point is, I believe, how come all the players (no matter what instrument they play) who really can play don't get the much deserved attention?!?!?!
And how come do those sloppy "players" make the front line?!?!?!
And the front page?!?!?!

I want some answers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know you've got them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

_________________
"If you're on a path that's beaten, it's not your path." Joseph Campbell

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me."

"All that is impossible remains to be achieved."
Jules Verne

www.stratcollector.com

You talk like this is some new phenomenom within the past 5-10 years... It has been like this since the invention of radio and big recording companies... Get used to it... it's not going to change...

Do you think the Jackson 5 were the best musicians of their time... Or the monkees...

However, today's best players do make a good living.. I don't think Pat Metheny is in the poor house... and that guy genuinely playes whatever the heck he wants to.. You don't need billions of dollars to be happy...

Hi CajunBlues! Of course it's nothing new! And I am not talking about the well known faces only. I am talking about the phenomenon in general. And it is a phenomenom! I just don't understand it. So, I thought I should ask for your opinions here. And I'm glad you see it a bit differently than I do. That's what it's all about. Exchanging opinions.
The other day I was with a good friend of mine and he is a great rock guitar player, all into Satriani and stuff. I've got nothing against it, nothing at all, and he asked me if I was making any progress with my guitar playing. Imagine that! He's all into distortion kind of stuff, and that hard edge thing. So, jazz and a guitar with no distortion is not a guitar playing according to him. Not to mention acoustic players out there. And I see most of new players share that point of view, which is a catastrophe if you ask me.
You mentioned Pat Metheny, I don't need to tell you what my friend thinks about him and his music! It's a shame! That's my point!
Doesn't matter what you play, you don't need to know the harmony, the basics, you don't have to feel the rhythm, just turn it up! That's something I can hardly bare!

PS I turned my guitar a bit, just a bit and my friend was stunned! Now I've got a bit more respect.
It's ok, but I don't want to make audience that way. If you know what I mean.

If you can't play an acoustic guitar, you can't play at all! That's my philosophy on guitar playing.

_________________
"If you're on a path that's beaten, it's not your path." Joseph Campbell

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me."

"All that is impossible remains to be achieved."
Jules Verne

www.stratcollector.com

I'd have to disagree that studio musicians are more talented than gigging musicians. I think its a utter misnomer based on no fact whatsoever only your own personal experiences, that sound quite limited.
Studio's are the ultimate cheat. You could get a tin eared dog to record a good sounding track in a modern studio. The main talent with studio work is the engineer or producer. You need someone to edit self obsessed musicians or they just go on and on.

I'm back in the studio saturday (demo time soon).

On the other hand it sounds like your only experiences of gigging musicians (that cant hide solely behind studio trickery and editing, they have to perform) is with kids who just want to make a noise. Theres nothing wrong with that kids do it all the time, it's a part of the learning process. Of the actual gigging musicians I've played with, the loudest was a keyboard player. I've just sacked him, even the drummer was complaining. Because the guy had extensive theory knowledge and a very educated ear, you couldnt talk to him. So it was time for byebye's.

I'd also disagree with the spirit of the post, that studio recording is more valid than live music. I think thats the other way round too. I frankly get bored listening to cd's or mp3's. I have to be doing something else too, theres just nothing lately that interests me enough. And all the old stuff, I've heard it all before performed many times by many different people. Live entertainment on the otherhand is visual as well as audiable. I'd rather go see a band it's a lot more interesting than staring at some speakers that some noise is coming out of.

Finaly I think the whole recording industry should be squashed and thrown away. I'm sick of being forcefed tin earred talentless boob shaking imbeceiles, by the accountants running warner and sony. I'll be very glad when piracy has destroyed that lot. In the meantime I'll carry on scouring the internet sites like myspace for independant artists and buy their records when I get to see em perform, if their any good live.

Please dont take this as a meanspirited post. It's not and is just my opinion of a subject that matters a lot to me.

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No no and no

Well brother, here's my 2 cents and 34 years of playing point of view. I gigged with the goal of becoming a "rock star" for 12 years. It wasn't going to happen so now I play for fun, sit in with friends, and gig occasionally for beer and a few bucks.

Becoming a "Rock Star" is actually more about luck and trend timing as it is about talent. You gotta be in the right place, meet the right people, and be playing the right music, at just the right time.

Outstanding musicianship really only impresses other musicians (they usually make up about 5% of your audience). Don't write or play to impress other players. Write stuff with a good "groove" and a great "'hook".

Successful gigging musicians are able to write songs that appeal to a broad spectrum of people (the lowest common denominator). You may love what you write, but if lots of other people don't love it . . .

I don't think Studio guys are necessarily "better" than the guys out gigging. It's just different skill sets. Due to the nature of the job, studio players need to be technically proficient and adept at a variety of musical styles so that they can play what the session requires. This isn't necessarily true of the guys playing in the same band with the same style four nights a week. Sure they may be able to play Country, Jazz, and Metal equally well, but if they only need to show one style then that's all we see. With the gigging musician it's about good songs and showmanship.

Becoming a rock star is a pretty rare thing. Of all the guys I used to gig with and around "back in the day" only 3 are still making money off of music. Two give private lessons and the other writes commercial "jingles". The rest of us have regular jobs but still play just because we love playing.

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"Life is like eating jalapenos. What you do today may burn your arse tomorrow"

Nick, my man! I completely understand everything you said! But, if it was aimed at me personally, I must strongly say that you have completely misunderstood my post!



Where did you hear me saying that? I never said that! Quite logically because I don't think studio musicians are more talented than gigging musicians! How could I say that if I don't believe in it? I said that I didn't like to gig! And that I prefer studio surroundings and working in the studio. I was talking about myself! Nobody else! But, I like your response to that, because that's exactly what I wanted to achieve here! A discussion about the differences in being a studio and a gigging musician. I am not a gigging oriented musician, but a studio one. So I want to make a discussion and hear different opinions on this. There are both types of musicians on this forum, and I was referring to them both! I very much respect you gigging musicians. And I do admire the endurance and the possibility to do that! Simply because I am not like that at all! I don't have the personality to do that. That's what makes studio and gigging musicians different. Not talent, but the ability to perform every night and don't get bored or fed up with it. You need to be talented to do both! That's my opinion on that. By the lack of talent I was referring to those that don't actually belong to either group of musicians. If you can group musicians after all.



You see how easy it is to get into an argument about it. I know you show no disrespect, it's just your opinion on this. The same with me. That's the absurdity in this topic. That's the reason I posted it in the first place! The absurdity of even talking about it! I even hate this topic. But we all get to it from time to time. So, let's talk about it here. Why not! As friends!


Of course it's based on my personal experience. I can't talk about someone else's experiences! That's why I need you to tell me about it.
My personal experiences on gigging are indeed limited. But, because I chose to be that way. I don't like to gig much. I don't get much satisfaction out of it as you do. The same feeling you get when you're in the studio. You see, we understand each other after all! We both love to play, but have different philosophies and approaches to music. That's why we can learn from each other! I like that, don't you? We're all friends here. Let's learn about music in some other way from each other. Different than what we're used to.



Of course you can't always be in the studio, you must play live too. I prefer studio, you prefer live. Nothing wrong with that.
No, my gigging buddies were never kids that make noise. I mentioned kids making noise as an example of becoming a musician. You learn that way I agree. But, some kids continue to make noise, some move on and become great musicians. It depends on their talent and their own philosophy about music. I, by no means, wish to offend anybody! I am only wondering how come those that continue to make noise become stars, and those that become great musicians don't.



Again, I've never said that studio recording is more valid than live music. I actually prefer listening to live music! Improvisation in live music cannot be beaten! Ever! I love loose jams.



Great point there!!!!



Same here!

PS You see what great discussion we have here! I like it!

_________________
"If you're on a path that's beaten, it's not your path." Joseph Campbell

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me."

"All that is impossible remains to be achieved."
Jules Verne

www.stratcollector.com

Lovely said! Couldn't agree more! You shared the essence of this thread! Thanks!

_________________
"If you're on a path that's beaten, it's not your path." Joseph Campbell

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me."

"All that is impossible remains to be achieved."
Jules Verne

www.stratcollector.com

I forgot to mention this... So true !

I really hate to throw Pete Townsend under the Bus... But this comment reminds me of a story... When I watched Pete peform in the super bowl halftime... He messed up more than once... And I don't know if it was he couldnt hear the monitors or it was the band screwing up.. really doesn't matter.. Pete and the rest of the band were not on the same page...

I mentioned his mistakes to some folks at work and they said "He sounded awesome !" " I couldn't tell at all he messed up "

Hence the statement mthorn00 (above) holds a lot of credibility...

We as musicians listen too much to details... when sometimes its better just to sit back and be brainless for a while and enjoy the sounds...

This is a great thread.
The Monkees USED some of the best musicians of their time. " The Wrecking Crew" The Beach Boys, The Byrds and almost every top act of the 60's used them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wrecki ... 28music%29

There's a film that's great and it's called "The Wrecking Crew" Even if you're not from that generation, (I was) it's a great film and seriously interesting and eye opening.

Today it's all a look. When I played professionally in the 70's and 80's it was the same thing. There were lots of extremely talented musicians who were happy not getting real involved in the music industry.

When I see kids playing nothing but white noise, with just two fingers in dropped D tuning, I cringe. But the bar is packed. You don't have to be good, you just have to draw a crows. It's always been that way as far back as I can remember.

A studio musician could make a real comfortable living, but a lot of that work seems to be drying up very quickly.

I remember reading the old Guitar Player columns of Tommy Tedesco. Doing studio work is an art in itself. You HAVE to be ready for whatever the producer asks you to do. Tommy's column was proof of how it wasn't always what you played, but how you played it.

+1 on The Wrecking Crew (Tommy, Leon Russell, Mary Kay, Glen Campbell, etc.)

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Being able to play and enjoy music is a gift that's often taken for granted.

Don't leave home without it!

Mike, "The Wrecking Crew" is a great film.

As a studio musician, if you are one already, you know the monotony of the work. Sitting down at times and them saying "play 5 min of "A" quarter notes". It sounds like youve just never been in a band playing the kind of music you want to play. Find what makes you happy, and just do it.

-Vince

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This is a fun thread. Having been both a touring musician and a studio musician in Nashville I can tell you there is sooo much debate in the industry it is not funny.. The studio musicians in Nashville would say we are awesome because we make bad musicians sound good. The touring musicians would say we are better because we only get one shot and it is live every night etc etc. My personal experience is that I love both. I love to tour and the thrill of a live crowd and the electric feeling when the lights go down and the first notes just bring the crowd up on their feet. What I hate about touring...hotels, crappy food, broken equipment, sound check(Oh how I hate that...LOL) and last but not least the boring times between shows. The studio can be such fun because you can explore the texture of the song and the different options you have are wonderful. What I hate about the studio...producers who take a song and change it to suit the singer (it is the business so that is life) the cold sterile environment...at 3 in the am it is a really depressing place and last but not least the distractions of having a ton of folks always coming in. Each has their merit, it just depends on what niche you feel most comfortable in.
ABS

The big difference is if you're not on your game on stage, when the nights over it's generally forgotten. When you record, it's forever.

What I do is make arrangements and orchestrations to new compositions, and make suggestions and show others how to play certain tunes or lines, etc. (the studio owner is my dad's friend and a part time guitarist, so I kind of stepped in helping him, but started to evolve into this studio stuff). So, it's not a monotony to me as you may think. But, you're right I have never been in a band playing what I really want to play. So, what motivates and satisfies a gigging musician is a mystery to me. Anyway, I adore my studio work! Actually, I am about to go in and record my first complete album, with most of the tunes/compositions written or co-written by me (not showing off, just very excited about it)! Then maybe I'll put my music on sites Nikininja mentioned and let you all have a listen to it. When it's done, I hope to make a band and do just that that you mentioned. Play what I want to play. But, I don't think I'll ever leave my studio work behind! I just love it!

PS I forgot to mention that most of the musicians I play and work with I've known since I was a kid. My dad is a keyboard player as well, so they are all his friends. And mine too. A great bunch of guys! All hard core rockers! I'm the youngest there. But, I am not a hard core rocker myself.
And occasionally I teach music. Privately. Like here, "Music theory". I love that too. There is something about that feeling when you make another musician.
So, that's what I do. Just something to make this thread more reasonable in case you're wondering what the hell am I talking about.

But, a great topic to discuss, isn't it!

_________________
"If you're on a path that's beaten, it's not your path." Joseph Campbell

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me."

"All that is impossible remains to be achieved."
Jules Verne

www.stratcollector.com